Westeros

I think that the capitals should be locked inside of a territory so that if you decide to hold the territory around your capital, you will be blocked in. The San Francisco capitals suffer from this problem. It gives an arbitrary and unfair advantage to any play who receives randomized placement around their cap. Further, the 4 player capitals on Falkland Islands gives an unfair advantage to 1 capital because it is not locked inside of the region. As someone who plays more capital games than 98% of the people on this site, I ask that you do not adopt Bishop's changes. Bishop has yet to provide reasons for his desired changes. Also, Bishop's changes place 2 capitals too close to one another in the top section of the map. There are other problems, but I think the onus should be on him to provide actual reasons for the changes beyond "I don't like them."

We really did try to not place the capitals on borders on the san francisco map but we had to when spacing was an issue. You are welcome to make suggestions. Also, feel free to suggest an alternative setup for 4p falkland island and post it in that maps thread.

I agree to have capitals inside the regions when it is possible but I do hate 2 ways caps, like Skagos and many others in Paddlin's placement. 3 and 4 can be considered similar, but 2 is a great disvantage! I think in order of importance capitals should... - have the same numbers of ways out - be equally spaced - be inside the regions Ports are very important connections on this map. That also should be valued. In my placement (for 6p or more) all the caps have a 2 hops distance to ports. That means a 5 hops distance to every other cap on the same side of the map. 1 way caps, like Stony Shore, are not nice for me. Very strange placement Stony Shore... You can move all your troops in Sea Dragon Point and get a 6 ways cap. And more adjacent to Lannisport in case of 9p. Do you want adjacent capitals? I don't think my placement is perfect, probably can be improved, but Paddlin's suggestion looks weird to me. I'm going to make the pictures with the template since will be easy for everybody to look at them.

Here Paddlin's CAPITALS => http://oi48.tinypic.com/2lktn6b.jpg ------ [b]4p[/b] capitals comparison - Ice Rivers: 4 ways out; distances 4, 6, 8; internal; I think it can be a good capital, but it's close to the Neck only and far from the others. 2 of the shortest paths are on the same way. - Skagos: 2 ways out; distances 3, 6, 6; internal; Only 2 ways, the others have 4! It has no control on any regions. The shortest paths 3-6-6 are all on the same way out, it always need to pass Eastwatch. Too bad. - The Neck: 4 ways out; distances 4, 5, 6; bordering; This is the only one well distanced from the others and also the only one with 3 detached paths against opponents. Too good. - Rosby: 4 ways out; distances 3, 5, 8; bordering; Very close to Skagos and far from Ice Rivers. Good control on regions, it can conquer its own and it still keeps 2 ways out. ------ [b]5p[/b] can be good, just Golden Tooth and Starfell a little too close. Really Starfell can have a good convenience on take its region. Also my placement suffer this problem. ------ [b]6p.[/b] Last River and Sandstone have only 2 ways, the other capitals have 4 or more. Last River has the same problem of Skagos: all the shortest paths are in the same way (via Last Heart). Capitals on the West side are too close eachother. Specially once Stony Shore has moved all its troops in Sea Dragon Point... and got 6 ways out... Very strong capital with a great convenience of take the region, and it still keeps 4 paths! ------ Well, I can go on... But I guess the style is the same for 7, 8 and 9 players, there isn't any equality. In 9p there are 2 caps almost adjacent... They look like random territories! I'm sorry Paddlin, the fact that you are a good player doesn't mean that you are a good capitals finder. Do you agree?

Here my CAPITALS => http://oi45.tinypic.com/2ducgon.jpg That is what I had proposed but we can make some refinings. I can give a short description. [b]2p[/b] - 5 ways; distance 7; bordering. They have a path of 3 hops to the ports on both sides. [b]3p[/b] - 4/5 ways; distances 6/7; bordering. [b]4p[/b] - (3)/4 ways; distances 5/6/(8*); internal. * Ashemark --> Longbow Hall is 8 hops, but I like to have a solution with capitals inside the regions. Then 4p in a large map like this I think the bonuses will do the winner more than the paths. [b]5p[/b] - 3/4 ways; distances 4-7; bordering. The idea was to have Thenn and Ashford, the capital on the top and the one on the bottom, equally distanced from ports on both sides with 3 hops and then the other capitals in the middle. A little ugly placement I guess. [b]6p[/b] - 3/4 ways; distances 4/5 to two or three opponents, 7/8 to the others; internal or also bordering but with only 1 way in the case they take the regions. [Except Starfell, this is a problem, wanna move it to High Hermitage]. All the capitals have a path of 2 hops to at least one port. This is very good for me for assure equal distances and equal control on these important connection points on the map. [b]7-8-9p[/b] - 3/4 ways; distances 4/5; internal or bordering (read 6p comment above). This is the same than 6p just adding one by one a new capital in the empty areas (see the picture pls). In 8-9p Ice Rivers and Craster's Keep have only 3 hops (rather than 4), this is good to balance the fact that they are on the bottom border of the map. In 9p also Tumbleton and Stonehelm are 3 hops distanced, not a great problem I think. 9p placement adding Tumbleton is also not very beautiful for me but I think it can work well.

Well, I could make some little changes to my proposal. For 6 or more players. Move from Starfell to High Hermitage as I said. And also move from Ironoaks to Redfort for reduce the distance to Riverrun. For 9 players. Change Tumbleton to Silverhill. More Beautiful. They are little changes but basically the description that I gave is still valid. I hope it doesn't make confusion. New Bishop's Caps 6-7-8-9p => http://oi46.tinypic.com/2h56u5j.jpg

I'll try and take a look at your work on the weekend when I have time.

Vexer I think you can wait, I'm rechecking the caps by myself and making a new version. 2-3-4 are ok for me, wanna improve the others.

ok good cause I spent all my time last weekend on new york city and didn't get to this.

I tried my best. 2,3,4 - 5,6 http://oi45.tinypic.com/11w5ao7.jpg 7,8 - 9 http://oi49.tinypic.com/2z3tbvo.jpg 5p is very good for me, and also 7p. 8p, there's two caps internal but they have 4 ways out, the other are bordering with 3 ways out only. 9p not the best in equality but it's nice. Take your time Vexer, this map gives the headache!

Headache? Try to make it! LOL

Never liked this map really. The geographical representation of this fictional place is pretty lacking. The North-South compression is enormous so that the original shape is not recognizable anymore. Some territory tags are misspelled and someone other completely made up. And as a last note regions don't correspond so much with the actual kingdoms of Westeros. Many rivers and too many bridges are there. Some of them are not really useful as you can delete the river and the bridges over it still saving the gameplay as it is. As a result connections are hard to check. Probably the reason why Vexer never took the time to check my capital proposals. Capital placements as they are now are under decency for me, but I don't mind anymore as I know Aeronautic is working on a [url=http://www.dominating12.com/forum/?cmd=topic&id=2053]new Westeros map[/url] and this one will be probably put to rest.

It is slightly possible that this map will be staying for a while, as there has been much concern that it is a favourite map of many players and even though the new one is more accurate, it differs in territory quantity and therefore is a different map altogether. I would continue with your capital evaluation.

Aside from the shrinking, it's a very fun map. Plus, you can't get rid of it before I win.

Grown to accept this map, although my first experience getting a capital in the white area made me go ughh.. That problem definitely needs to be addressed with a re-colour or something.