• 131 posts
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The_Bishop wrote:
Wow, finally the ocean got a nice blue touch! Well done :)

Misspelling report: Beira (correct name on the map) in the game log shows as Biera (incorrect).
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
Hoodlum wrote:
thanks again Bishop. the spelling is now corrected in the system
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Cireon wrote:
This is due to a bug currently in our system. We're looking into it so we can fix it. Thanks for reporting!
“This is how humans are: We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question.”
- Speaker for the Dead, O.S. Card
Cireon is online.
aeronautic wrote:
Yes, it's meant to be Béchar
é is the code for é
Hyd yn oed er fy mod Cymraeg , dim ond yn siarad Saesneg, felly yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd y cyfieithu yn gywir.
Kstlao wrote:
Well, I don't like the treatment given to the Spanish territories. I've tried to analise the reasons to name it in that way and no other, but I definitely don't understand. When was the map fixed? In what historical period? I can see a modern division of states (i.e. Western Sahara or Morocco or Slovenija or Croacia etc), incluiding a reasonable naming of French and Italian regions. So, I must to beleive that it's a modern Mediterranean (and part of Atlantic) division. But, what happenned in Iberian Peninsula? For most of people living in Spain, is offensive. Here the reasons:
1st.- Catalonia: this is a nationality fixed in the east of Spain (historically even in SE of France, Sardinia, Sicily and Naples), but nowdays only the Catalonian language has a similiar extension. So, incluiding inside Catalonia to countries like Galicia, Asturias, Euskadi/Basque Country, Nafarroa/Navarre and Aragon (yes! Aragon) sounds simply like a madness. A proper name for this region would be North Spain. There isn't historically or cultural matters that link ones to the others (incluiding languages: Galician language, Asturian language, Basque language and Aragonese language, all of them are very different languages from the Catalonian one). You must be aware that the expansion of languages in Iberia happened from north to south, not from west to east.

2nd.- Aragon: well, you should know that inside the division you propose are included this modern regions: Castile and Leon, Extremadura and the Andalusian province of Huelva. So, where is Aragon in this division? I must to inform you that Aragon is besides Catalonia. A proper name for this would be Castile, Leon and Extremadura or, simply, West Spain. Historically, it corresponds mostly (not all) to the ancient Kingdom of Leon. But, we've agreed that this is a current map.

3rd.- Al-Andalus: this was the name given by the muslims conquerers to all the Spanish peninsula, non only Andalusia. In the latest presence times of muslims in the peninsula (XV c,), the name was Kingdom of Grenade, not Al-Andalus. But, again, this is a current map, so the proper name should be just Andalusia. Why you don't name Sicily as Siqilliya or Slovenija as Carantania (as in ancient times, until XV century). Ah! and remember that a little portion of this region (Huelva province) is included in this moment in your map inside Aragon.

4th.- finally, Valencia: well, this is, in my opinion, the less incorrect of named divisions. But only because Valencia as well is the name of a city. The region of Valencia (they speak a variant of Catalonian language, by the way) is besides the Mediterranean Sea. But, inside this map-division is Castile-La Mancha and Murcia also, and cultuarally both of this are very different from Valencia. I propose name it like East Spain.

Of course, if you decides to change the structure of the divisions, this would mean rechecking the names. But, in the current name of these divisions, it is offensive to many of us who are living in Spain, as I have said. By the way, the names given to the divisions of Portugal are also somewhat controversial.

If you need some help about the historical development of Iberian peninsula, just tell me. But, please, change that names!
The_Bishop wrote:
@Kstlao ... I think you are mostly right but not entirely. Please, take into account it's a game map, we like better when maps are accurate but it is not mandatory. World Classic is full of non-sense territories that result offensive for many people all over the world, but basically nobody cares, in 60 years they never fixed the mistakes.

This map is one of the oldest in our site and the divisions were made as they are to ensure a good game-play and probably we will not change them. I don't think all countries have appropriate territory names, especially those territories in the middle of the Sahara desert I doubt strongly. Anyway let's just focus on Spain.

1. Catalonia: it's acceptable because that territory actually include Catalonia. Yes, likely 'North Spain' would be more appropriate but it is not in the style of the rest of the map: there aren't any 'North' or 'South' followed by the name of any State. The name of the States are only used where a territory occupies the whole country. Catalonia is also (by far) the most populated of all Northern Spain communities.
2. Aragon: it's wrong, you are right. Completely misplaced and written in Spanish while the rest of the map is in English. Again 'West Spain' is not cool and too different from the rest. Extremadura is probably the best name being it in the middle between Castile-and-Leon and the province of Huelva. 'Castile and Leon' could also be fine, just a bit too long.
3. Al-Andalus: it's wrong, you are right. Andalusia is the correct name for that territory and it has a different meaning from Al-Andalus, the name used by the Arabs to call <all> their Spanish kingdom. It has nothing to do with modern Spain and the map is modern, not historical.
4. Valencia: it's fine. Either that or 'Castile La Mancha' but again why to use such a long name? It's not the case in my opinion. I think Valencia is still the best name.

Portugal (the only non-mediterranean State) I think is just fine as it is: Beira and Alentejo. Eventually can be considered also Porto and Lisbon.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
The_Bishop wrote:
The older version was like this:

I have no idea why the names changed. (?)
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
Hoodlum wrote:
The older version was like this:

I have no idea why the names changed. (?)

when updating the map, cartographer @psymonstark sent me a message. as i am not too familiar with this geography/history of the world, i just went with what he asked. (i think..yet to read the posts made)

psymonstark message (click to show)
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Hoodlum wrote:
i am able to edit the map, as i have the original source file handy i believe. name change isn't a hard edit, just a matter of figuring out what font was used.

so..keep the discussion going, and when your satisfied with what is decided, i can make any changes.
i got into map making because, NZ gets butchered or disappears on maps :)
i try to be respectful where i can for other geography, and players that live there. chur
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The_Bishop wrote:
@Hoodlum, thanks, now I understand...

Let's say that Psymon proposed to change the names without making a clear proposal by himself and you misinterpretated much of what he said. He mixed historical names with present day names and indirectly tried to suggest the use of Spanish written names rather than English, not the case in my opinion. (note: 'Castile' in English has only one L)

If we want to give a bit of 'historical touch', still using modern territory names, then I might suggest 'Castile' and 'Aragon', replacing respectively the current Aragon (misplaced) and the current Catalonia (politically too hot).

Let's summarize
Original  ...  ...current  ...  ...Kstlao's  ...  ...mine
1.CataloniaCataloniaNorth SpainAragon
2.ExtremaduraAragon o_OWest SpainCastile
4.ValenciaValenciaEast SpainValencia

i try to be respectful where i can for other geography, and players that live there.
Yes me too, so I would like to hear something more from Spanish people here.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein