and its surroundings
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Dima wrote:
I have a cool idea how to merge the concept of additional bonuses and rivers.

Some people proposed to make the rivers as impassable, the same way it is in other maps. But how about we merge rivers and additional bonus system together? For example: If you control all territories that the river passes/flows through, then you will get a bonus. Lets look at one of the 3 rivers, Dnjepr. It starts in the duchy of smolensk, flows through chernogiv, kiev and yedisan. In total it flows through 4 regions and 11 territories. So lets add a following bonus: For controlling all these 11 territories, you will get an additional bonus, lets say +4. And if you also control all the 4 regions, you will get another additional bonus of +3 or +4, details can be done later, right now its about the understanding of the concept. I can also change the flow of the rivers, to change the amount of territories it transits and make the flow more clear, cuz the other two rivers, wolga and don dont have a clear transit route.

So basicly you get bonuses for controling the river flow/river basin, first the territories, then you can expand your control on the regions.

This system will first add more historicity to the map, which is very important for me. Dont forget: States (sometimes) form around trade routes. And usually rivers serve as trade routes, connecting markets with each other. The polotical/economic entity that controls the trade way and markets can profit from it by taxing it. Parallel to it, it uses the money recieved from taxes, to pay for protection of the routes/markets. Amd voila: first states emerge.

Secondly, it will make the game more complicated, because a player can have multiple ways of expanding in order to recieve bonuses and therefore power and influence, because a territory or a region can be used in combination with other territories/regions to gain bonus. So basicly, you have more strategic/tactical choices.

Thirdly, the additional bonuses can be used instead of choke points to "order" the board. Usually choke points serve as borders between spheres of influence of different players, for example morocoo, greece, sinai etc on the mediterranean map. Here the combination of territories/regions can serve as a way of establishing some kind of "natural" spheres of influencen because players could strive to go in a direction where they can additional bonuses. Of course some territories/regions overlay with eachother, for example the same territory/region can be a part of 2-3 "additional bonus systems" simultaneously, therefore it will at the same time create not just "natural borders", but also competition and confloct and drive the game forward.

To explain it in a different way: currently territories are always part of one region and regions cannot be put together to gain a bonus. So what we can do with this additional bonus system, is to make certain territores/regions open for  r e c o m b i n a t i o n among each other, a bit like a puzzle whose parts can be recombined with each other in different ways and always create a picture. So for example you can control 4 territories of one region to gain the regional bonus, but you can also control 2 territories of this region combined with 3 territories from another regions to gain a bonus. Thus, a player will have multiple choices where to go. Or you can put two whole regions together for an additional bonus, for example duchy of ryazan and d. o. murom. Or you can take one territory each from different regions, to gain a bonus, for example kiev, novgorod and south-eastern budjak. So basicly through the additional bonus system we can recombine territories/regions with each other in different ways. Thusmaking the game gain more strategic and tactical complexity.


Trust me, it will revolitionaze the gameplay.
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
biso wrote:
I'd defer to hoodlum on map design - really like the two ones he's been beta testing, though I don't think they've been formally added yet as options to play

Very generally speaking, I'd like to see the rivers in yours impassable // I personally like weird choke points and some imbalance in layout, as it creates conflict, vs more evenly balanced maps ie France
Axobongo wrote:
I like the idea of each river having 2 ports, like a bridge, but not to the nearest region across the water.
I too hope the map ends up with the Black Sea on the bottom.
This is a great idea for a map
“Man plans, Dice & Cards laugh” ~ Axo
Pntbttr wrote:
The lack of impassibles is going to hurt the gameplay because you've picked such a wide open piece of land. I recommend using the rivers to break it up a bit. If you are comfortable adding mountains I would do that as well.

I do not like the extra bonuses. No one is going to read a wall of text to find out if they get one extra troop. If you want to keep the exra bonuses I'd recommend using a visual aid instead. For instance, make the borders around these extra bonuses thicker, add a white glow like on the Oregon Cities map, or use different shades of the same color for the different regions included in the extra bonus (kind of like on the Mediterranean States map). Reduce the number of bonuses and then just have one or two line of text that says something like "+1 for controlling two regions that are different shades of the same color".
Pntbttr wrote:
I have very little knowledge of this locations history, however, when I google some of the names I'm seeing multiple things about trade routes popping up. If you wanted to add something like the sheriffs posts on the Texas map you could add trading posts.
Dima wrote:
Hmmm.... i really like the additional bonuses and they are meant to be used as a substitute for impassables. impassables prevent you from going somewhere, but instead the additional bonuses are meant to direct you into going to certain places, or put it with other world, they should make going into certain direction less profitable and thus act as a some kind of "flexible impassable", you shouldnt go there, because its less profitable than a different direction, but if you want, you can still expand there. it basicly introduces costs in theform of lost opportunities. there is a term from economy that describes a similar problem "costs of opportunity". i explained the idea in the long post above. check if out, guys.

regarding too much text, i disagree, after few games you know the system more or less. atleast i can memorize the map after few games. and i think the additional systen is worth it.

for me the best way is just to test it in real games. its a new thing, maybe it will improve the gameplay.

regarding the rivers, here is my attempt of putting river and bridges:

[image]

but i would still go without rivers and instead additional bonuses. or both, but if both, then how would you do the river flow?


"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
I think its almost done:

[image]
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
Changed few details today; going to add map name and compass in the upper right part of the map later.


[image]

"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
a stupid question, but.......

.....how do i put the circles inside? do i need place the neutral, gray circles everywhere? right?
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
note for myself: just noticed some spelling mistakes and also gonna chnlanhe a detail in additional bonuses.
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
okay, few changes in wallachia added, it gives now only +2 and has one territory less. one more additional bonus with Pskov. and corrected few grammar mistakes.

[image]
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
Okay. this is final version. chenged teutonic knight and few additional bonuses and added title.
Adding rivers is possible, but i rly cant decide where and where to add bridges.
Tell me, if bonuses are okay.
I would like to proceed with naming the territories.
cheers!

[image]
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
note to myself: reduce duchy of murom by one territory and reduce the bonus to +1.

holding d.o. murom and d.o. ryazan would give +1 - this remains unchanged.

reduce additional bonus for holding d.o.kiev, d.o.turov and the khanate of yedisan to +1
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Pntbttr wrote:
The mini map bonuses are illegible. Avoid using slanted text, it tends to create a cluttered look. I don't know how you're going to be able to cleanly fit all the names though. You're probably going to have to abbreviate names or make the mini map larger. You could maybe do something like the Baltic map, but you've already got a lot of text for the extra bonuses.
Dima wrote:
damn.... is it really that bad? :(  i could try to do it the baltic way, but i will have to change zhe color palette a bit and the current one is rly beautiful.
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"