and its surroundings
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  • Page 6 of 9
Dima wrote:
Well, as much as i know the people of that time called themselves simply " Rus' ". The "s" is softly spoken, similarly to "c" when you pronounce "france" in french, just without the long "e" at the end.

I think there was no medieval time is that part of europe as it was in the western europe, so i would remove "medieval".
Regarding "kievan": There was no clear and durable political center. All princes were constantly fighting over who is first and were trying to unite the rus lands behind them.

For a certain amont of time kiev was the political center, before it was novgorod, after it was susdal-vladimir, then it changed to susdal-rostov, then it turned into moscov. Paralel the prince from galych-volyn was claiming he is the"main" prince among all princes. Basicly there was a constant fluctuation with the center of gravity going from one duchy to another with many duchies simultaneously claiming they are the "main" ones etc... Basicly a "fortnite" scenario if we talk about the politics.

Besides politics all people/inhabitants had a common identity, an idea of belonging to one and the same group/social entity, the Rus'.

You can compare it with germany during and after the time of napoleonic invasion. There was a common german identity, a common german language, although with many dialects, but there was no political center, and the german lands were divided in many many duchies, chiefdoms, cities etc.... And later germans tried to dicide whether Prussia or Vienna is the "main" city, but at the end it turned out to be berlin to politically unify all german lands. I think comparison to germany is a good one.

Anyway, I would skip all this and simply call it "Rus' ". It sounds archaic and cool and historicaly most accurate. I doubt one can find something wrong with the name.

Regarding the "M": No, its definetly not a swastika, and is not supposed to look like that. This association is very new to me. I think the used letters are slavic equivalent of gothic writing in english and are supposed to look archaic.


PS: Here are some of the images i found. Its for historical context for the ones who are interested in the basis of the map.
https://imgur.com/a/dFxNvVz

"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
Spoiler (click to show)

Heres a new version with proper bridges - i hope.
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
The_Bishop wrote:
Well, the comparison with the history of Germany is enlightening for me. Thanks for all the explanations.

New bridges look better I think, but possibly I would make them a little bit more narrow.
I spotted another flaw, the rivers on the mini-maps overlap the image frame, it looks strange.
Please, be prepared to make and remake things until everyone agrees that everything looks perfect.
I like the ancient style title "Русьскаꙗ землꙗ" (rus'skaia zemlia) it translates to Land of Rus', so let it be so?
Anyway the title can be further discussed, any of the mentioned options are fine for me.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
Dima wrote:
The_Bishop
Well, the comparison with the history of Germany is enlightening for me. Thanks for all the explanations.

New bridges look better I think, but possibly I would make them a little bit more narrow.
I spotted another flaw, the rivers on the mini-maps overlap the image frame, it looks strange.
Please, be prepared to make and remake things until everyone agrees that everything looks perfect.
I like the ancient style title "Русьскаꙗ землꙗ" (rus'skaia zemlia) it translates to Land of Rus', so let it be so?
Anyway the title can be further discussed, any of the mentioned options are fine for me.


alright, done!

Spoiler (click to show)


regarding title: yes, Land of Rus'  sounds also good. i am open to both, rus and land of rus.
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
The_Bishop wrote:
Okay nice, the new bridges look better, I'm not sure this will be the final version, however it's an improvement!
Rivers also maybe need some tweaks, a bit of outline and/or a dark halo, I don't know exactly... I'm not good myself at drawing rivers, so perhaps we should rely on some Hoodlum's tips. Or just make them a bit brighter? Maybe.

Some other suggestions by images

Top level mini-map and middle level mini-map are more-or-less fine, keep them as they are for now.

The bottom level mini-map is very busy, filled with white writings which cover most of the background image with the regions. People should be able to recognize the regions easily, while how the regions are called is less important. So what I suggest is to remove all + plus signs, because they are basic level bonuses -- on the upper levels it's right to use the + plus signs because those are extra bonuses -- but the basic ones don't need the + signs.
Bottom level mini-map (click to show)
The font size of the numbers is fine. The font size of the region names need to be a bit smaller, JUST A LITTLE BIT, perhaps all region names of the same size of S.BULGARS is fine, or even slightly smaller, but just slightly! POLAND name is tilted and it is fine for me, but the bonus number has to stand up, I mean up-oriented as the others. CIRCASIA name looks better vertical in my opinion, but I don't know; perhaps if you decide to verticalize it, then do the same also with Poland, just 90 degree rotation.

I think that the two longest sea routes on the Black Sea have to be curved, not straight, just because curved looks better.
[image]
...
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
The_Bishop wrote:
...
Talking about game-play

The sea routes on the Black Sea already provide a good and nice long-range connection between the South-West and the Central East. It's fine! In practice it connects the South to the East (diagonally) so I call it "South-East wide connectivity".
South-East only wide range connectivity (click to show)

Adding some sea routes on the Baltic Sea would be equally good I think. For example like this:
[image]

This would provide another nice long-range connection between the North-East and the Central West. And it would be fine too! In practice it would connect the North to the West (diagonally) so I call it "North-West wide connectivity".
South-East and also North-West wide range connectivity (click to show)

Not a big change in the end, just small, a bit more of connectivity in that section is for the better in my opinion. Well you could argue that the Baltic Sea is often covered by ice and not so easy to navigate across. However I think here the game-play wins over realistic historic representation. Let's just assume the war was during the summer with an easy to travel Baltic Sea.

It would also rise the internal connectivity of the Teutonic Knights region. Still keeping the Revel territory as a dead-end, which can be strategically important in some games especially with increasing cards, perhaps not much with capped cards, but the map has to be good more-or-less for any formats.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
The_Bishop wrote:
As for myself, I'm doing my part of the job implementing the map, little by little because this is huge:
around 140 territories, tons of adjacencies to be added one by one avoiding mistakes, plus complex bonuses involving large sections...
It cannot be quick. However me too I can't wait to test this map, because it has a great potential. We will get there!
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
Dima wrote:
Spoiler (click to show)

alright, did everything related to the main map. tomorrow gonna change the mini maps
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
btw, what do u think about putting esztergom and oltenia/dorostol and everything in between at one line? would it look better or sucks?
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
The_Bishop wrote:
Great, I like the changes. You are doing a good job @Dima!

All those names lined-up there in the south?
Yes why not, I think it's cool, sort of geometrical art, anyway it cannot be 'wrong', it's simply the map edge causing that.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
Dima wrote:
Spoiler (click to show)


alright, changed the minimaps.
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
i am also thinking bout removing the pluses on the two minimaps. it looks less crowded maybe.
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
btw... is one rivver, the dnepr, thinner than fhe other, volga? or js it justme?
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
The_Bishop wrote:
Nice, it's getting every day better!

I'm following several maps... Yes, one river is thicker, you made it, why you ask? LoL
Novgorod Severskiy region has to be a different colour, Red I think, and perhaps Crimea has to be a sort of orange like Vyatka...
Hungary borders and internal dividers are unrealistic, I mean the whole map has that cartoonish style and it's nice, but Hungary really hurt my eye.
The 4 large "map sections" in the top level mini-map seem too poor: when one already has +30 troops reinforcement then gets another +2... Uhm
I think the top level mini-map should use real map colours. And perhaps also shorter names: "Poland-Lithuania" is not accurate?


Likely in a few days or 1 week we will be able to run the first tests.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
Dima wrote:
The_Bishop
Nice, it's getting every day better!

I'm following several maps... Yes, one river is thicker, you made it, why you ask? LoL
Novgorod Severskiy region has to be a different colour, Red I think, and perhaps Crimea has to be a sort of orange like Vyatka...
Hungary borders and internal dividers are unrealistic, I mean the whole map has that cartoonish style and it's nice, but Hungary really hurt my eye.
The 4 large "map sections" in the top level mini-map seem too poor: when one already has +30 troops reinforcement then gets another +2... Uhm
I think the top level mini-map should use real map colours. And perhaps also shorter names: "Poland-Lithuania" is not accurate?


Likely in a few days or 1 week we will be able to run the first tests.


alright, just read your post and gonna fix the mentioned things tomorrow.

but the rivers were already re-done. i also tried to experiment with shadow:

Spoiler (click to show)
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"