and its surroundings
  • 131 posts
  • Page 7 of 9
Dima wrote:
shadow in hungaty and walachia, looks wierd, i know. gonna changd that later, if tbe shadowing is okay
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
The_Bishop wrote:
It looks too dark in the last image with the shadows! Perhaps they had to be softer and thinner.

Everything is too small in my opinion,
the map is too small and too crowded, the 3 mini-maps too, and the contested areas on the 2nd one are hard to see and hard to understand.
We can still run tests the way it is, but as an ultimate design I think a different layout should be tried. Map width has to be the whole image width (1024 px's), and the 3 mini-maps moved to the bottom. Just my 2 cents.

This project it's surely ambitious, especially as a first map!
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
The_Bishop wrote:
Last Version for reference (click to show)

@Dima: No no, I disagree with myself sorry, I have double personality!
Without redoing everything from scratch, with a 1024x1024 square image you can remake just the upper mini-maps a bit larger (not squashed).

Something like in this draft which I made manipulating a bit your image:
Larger mini-maps (example) (click to show)
It would look more clear to me.


«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
The_Bishop wrote:
I renamed this forum thread as Land of Rus'.

I tried to explain in English how the bonuses work in this map. It's actually quite simple and intuitive, but some might feel lost, so it's better to explain things well. Unfortunately the mini-maps are a bit small and squashed, so you probably can't see the contested areas very well.

  BONUSES  ..  EXPLANATION  ..  (click to show)

@Dima please tell me if what I wrote is correct! (?)

Edit: P.S. From what I know at that age Moskva was not a very important town yet, so perhaps Muscovy Rus' can just be called Northern Rus', in order to make the pair with Southern Rus'.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
Dima wrote:
Yes, you understood the way bonuses & additional bonuses & sections work absolutely correctly. Also the explaination is very clear and correct! good work!

right now i am trying to implement the changes. before i continuw with the mini maps, i have two questions:

1) i made my map 1024*855, if i do it 1024*1024 then it will look like this:

Spoiler (click to show)

there will be no room for enlargement of minimaps. and if i enlarge them, then only in one direction and this will make them look stretched.

i could stay with the current 1024*855 and try to use the same space, but just re-arrange the minimaps internally among themselves, so that they dont look stretched & still can be recognized. also i can use different coloring for the borders of super regions & sections, the same way you did it in your example.

give me a bit time to play & try.


PS: i could pit the mini maps at the bottom, beneath crimea, circasia and hungary, but it will make the whole image more stretched along the south-north axis amd the players will have to scroll even more. maybe the mini maps can remain at the side, but i could try to re-arrange them.

Edit: I could turn the map around, so that the mini maps will be on the bottom. it will look something like this (i didnt turn the mini maps, its just to get the idea).

Spoiler (click to show)
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
also, changed the hungary borders, is it better now?

Regarding names: yes, i am okay with the new forum name and with moscovy being changed into northern.
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
The_Bishop wrote:
Dima
1) i made my map 1024*855, if i do it 1024*1024 then it will look like this:
**spoiler**
Ah, no not like that, I'll show you what I meant.

Dima
PS: i could pit the mini maps at the bottom, beneath crimea, circasia and hungary, but it will make the whole image more stretched along the south-north axis amd the players will have to scroll even more. maybe the mini maps can remain at the side, but i could try to re-arrange them.
You don't want people to have to scroll too much, it makes sense indeed.

Dima
also, changed the hungary borders, is it better now?
Yes, it is.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
Dima wrote:
alright, thats what i have done so far:

Spoiler (click to show)

This is just a rough version. i ll polish it, if yoi say that the main outlay with minimaps, borders etc is ok.

some more things:
- I could remove the region names from the lowest mini map and increase the size of the numbers and make the region borders (only on the mini map) thinker. both will make the map cleaner and easier to read/more visible.
- in addition i can rename some of the territories and give them the regions name, for example instead of a region name "vladimir", i can rename a territory in that region into " vladimir* ". the * is supposed to represent regions name. its similar to what hoodlum did on his latest maps. (or make the text a bit thiker or italic or smthing like this).
- maybe, since i have enlarged the top mini map and the borders became easier to recognize, i could remove the bright section border? because it seems to break the whole map design a bit too much with these bright colors. or i ll add similar bright/colored borders on the middle mini map.

"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
ps: the writing on the top left part of the map can be re arranged differently. i just "parked" them there for a while. first i want to get the
mini maps done.
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
alrigght, new version:

Spoiler (click to show)

changes:

.removed the regional names from the first minimap.
.underlined the writing to make them more visible and look better.
.merged territory and region names.
.made all minimaps larged and not stretched.
.changed few territory names, in pereyaslavl, ukek and sarai batu

.maybe i should increase the number size on the lowest minimap?
.maybe some merges between ter and reg names look silly, such poland, hungary and teutons.
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
damn, just realized i made a mistake on section map. duchy of smolensk belongs to southern rus and must be pained in gray. gonna fix it later.
"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
Dima wrote:
Spoiler (click to show)

planing to take this as a new section map.

basicly, the super regions and section are aimed to reflect (roughly, more or less...) the political development of that rus land and surroundings through the time (and of course enrich the gameplay).
after the mongol invasion the rus states became weaker and its neighbors used the its weaknes to expand. poland and lithuania, while both being forced to pay tribute to the mongol khan, expanded to the south-east and took roughly the territories marked in purple on the section map. the political enitity was called polish-lithuanian commonwealth.
the steppe tribes finaly managed to win the competition over the northern shore of black sea (desht i qipchaq) and later formed the crimean khanate that lasted until russian "reconquista" launched by moscov against ottomans.
susdal and vladimir merged, later became susdal-rostov and later duchy of moscov and then zardom. this is roughly the northen rus territory.
southern rus does not reflect anything, its just for gameplay.
to the east bulgars developed into khanate of kazan.

"vorple: the real strategy comes when you cant just win cuz you got lucky and got the big card stack"
The_Bishop wrote:
You copied the asterisk method from Hoodlum's map, but honestly on a map as big as this one, I would prefer to have the names of the regions written on the mini-map. Otherwise without the names it is difficult to understand each other when you are talking to an opponent or a teammate.

Also if it is possible I would like to avoid having territories and regions with the same name. I understand that in some cases it cannot be done otherwise. For example in the Murom region there is a territory called Murom, it is normal, that is the name of the capital city. But it is not normal that in Poland there is a territory called "Poland"... Then many names end with an apostrophe and those asterisks are a bit confusing.

So far I've noticed a well-designed gameplay, I give you my compliments. Well, I tend to believe that you have a valid reason to change the sections, increasing them from 4 to 5. But it seems to me that you changed your mind a bit too quickly, let's wait a few more days please. The territories must be entered into the regions one by one and it takes time, if the regions and super-regions change every 2 days it becomes too much work for me!

Just for reference, the 4 current sections have the following sizes:
Desht-i-Qipchaq the khanate = 28 territories
Polish and Lithuanian comm. = 41 territories
the Northern Rus' section = 34
the Southern Rus' section = 31

P.S. In the game log I called Desht-i-Qipchaq "the khanate" because I think it was actually a khanate, but perhaps I'm wrong on that.
I can fix the name if it is incorrect.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
The_Bishop wrote:
Also, why the Kiev region is not part of the Rus' when some historians call it the Kievian Rus'?
There's a contradiction then. In which year is suited the map (more or less) ?

As for the graphics
A couple of sea routes in the Black Sea need fixes: Kaffa -- Tmu Tarkan' has to be longer, and the one from Or-Kapu need to a be a dotted line like the others. "Rivers are impassable" and "Bridges are passable" are two obvious things, perhaps you can avoid writing them. "Bonuses are stacked", I don't know...

It would be cool to see some ice effects in the cold north, but I know it is not so easy to do.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein