Game Summary and Feedback pleeeeeeeeeease :)
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Virtuosity98 wrote:
Post-Game Review

First and foremost, thanks for playing! It was a very interesting and enjoyable experience to watch the game unfold. I’ll be talking about the inspiration for the game, revealing information about Roles and the flow of money, summarising the events of the game, and pointing out the flaws that damaged the balance of the game.
Inspiration (click to show)
Role PMs (click to show)
Graphs of Finances (click to show)
What Went Down (click to show)
Mistakes and Flaws (click to show)

Please, please, PLEEEEEASE give feedback on flaws, potential improvements or even just unrelated suggestions. Would you be interested in playing this format again in the future?

It was good fun hosting, thanks for your participation!
It is now Day 8. Please submit your Lynch vote, as well as any Role-specific Day actions you wish to perform (countdown).
Day Actions:
• #LYNCH [player], #NO LYNCH, #ABSTAIN in forum thread.
• Role-specific actions (via PM with V98).





Hoodlum wrote:
It was a really cool theme.
This is the 2nd time that anaxagore has won as a neutral and well done! similar circumstance..he manages to get rid of me in a lynch with town players and their bad gut instincts. both times it looked obvious what town had to do after death but they just can't get it together. not so obvious i guess. but gotta take my hat off to anax.
I disagree with the wooden spoon thing. dough deserves it for sure, and i'm not being mean,. he can own up to this one. he's called out bad plays and players before from frustration, such as kyla, and vicious in past games. my mistake was missing out on a night phase that seemed super quick. two hours it seemed? and i didn't get to run for mayor.
dough became default mayor. getting rid of me, even if he thought i was mafia, was just terrible. mafia hadn't even made a kill, and i could actually be the rich power townie. there were two neutrals, and paulcha could have flipped..infact we find out that he was working with anax. i had made a point of this during that lynch day. it was a no brainer.
get rid of paulcha, and at the time we thought shop position was town. if that didn't happen, then you'd know who the other neutral was (hostile or non)..anaxagore and his dodgy role, that dough had picked up on earlier. i know when anaxagore is suspicious, cause he never trusts me when he's an actual town member in games :)
alex played really well.

Warrant ☰ ★Officer I and a Gentleman
Anaxagore wrote:
Actually it is the first time I win as neutral. The other time I won alone, I was a mafia member but there were two mafia families (i had lost my partners pretty fast).
If Paulcha had been lynched instead of Hoodlum, town would have busted me in a second because he was still wearing the leef green mask.
We wanted to swap but the night before (just after we lynched elysium) Paul didn't have enough money to do it.

This game was awesome Virtuosity. I think the idea of being able to buy items is a really cool idea, making it possible for anyone to do anything.
About the few flaws, yes i had too much money too fast. The way I had to spend money in case of socialism was also a bit complex.
Otherwise everything looked good.

To make things even more exciting, my ideas are:
-CCTV report all actions.
-Doused houses should not be notified (push people to buy CCTV).
-Poison kills the next night (i thought about using it but two nights was just too long).
-Mafia should have a power to kill within homes (if the person is not there they miss).
-Anyone can knifekill (take justice into your own hands)?
-Maybe an inspector who can see who holds which mask at night?
-A permanent hallucinogen at the store?
-Maybe an expensive sniper to kill protective vest owner?

Anyway these are just details, the global game was really fun. Thanks for having taken the time to answer all my questions Virt.
dough_boy wrote:
I was wondering if there was a cop...guess it was Huskers.

I agree, the shop owner got too much money too fast...and that coupled with knowing who bought what was really powerful.

Yes, my gut was wrong, but it was also reinforced by my discussion with Syg who didn't even vote.
Muzthebus wrote:
First of all thanks for hosting such and thrilling and exciting mafia game V98.

since this was my second game i found alot of things strange and coulndt figure out what exacly i could do and not.
i read the roles and everything posted, but i guess this comes with more experince of these kind of games.

i like the 3phases.
it was very hard killing pp imo.

u came to some great conclusions about the storeowner problem and other faults that may have been.

i could how ever like to see something about the inactive players role in the game, won't know how to deal with that.
it just seems hard and felt limited in the game that a few didnt paticipate at all.
this is not to disbute the fact that u can get occupied in the real world for what ever reason, but idk what can be done with this.

i truly enjoyd it and can't wait to the next mafia game.
AlexCheckMate wrote:
I'll start with quoting Muzthebus and agreeing with him:

Muzthebus
First of all thanks for hosting such a thrilling and exciting mafia game V98.
And to add to that - thanks everyone else for participating - a host without players aint much fun either ;)

=) Although I was dissatisfied at quite a number of times for all kinds of reasons, the game did excite me. Overal the feeling is positive.

To mention a few things that in my opinion could really use another "look over" (more here: https://dominating12.com/forums/5/off-topic/3084/money-and-masks-game-thread/post/54462#post-54462 and just overal in that thread :p):

  • Inactivety. I understand that this isn't something which is caused by the host, however, I do feel the gamesetup should be such that it deals with it, rather than leaving the remaining players with the problem. In a pro-active way, the host can check before the game starts whether the signed up players are still up for it. Considering the players are supposed to be doing stuff at least daily, the host can take 1 or 2 days to allow for the players to respond on his last call, to check whether they're still game. That should already eliminate the inactiveness of players right of the bat (which was the thing in this game). Furthermore, for inactivety that occurs DURING the game, it should be evaluated on a case by case basis, perhaps some replacements could help. When such a solution is frowned upon, certain skills of important roles could be transferable (e.g. have 1/more 'learning' townies (not in the sense as you had in this game :p), which have as a secondary skill that they can take over someone else's skills, when it turns out the skill isn't being used).
  • Little communication in the thread (I mean that relatively). Just about everything was arranged through PMs - this is not how mafia/werewolves is meant to be played. The main thought behind the game is that almost all the information one gets, is obtained as individuals and, if so desired (/at the right time), publicly shared with everyone else - this thus also ensures that everyone knows who the source of the info is; the source is accountable. Information running behind the scenes should only be allowed for role specific exceptions (e.g. mafia and for town maybe a twin or something) and by means of spraypaint, info can also be shared anonymously (in this limited setup, that adds to the game).
  • Overpowered roles/items/positions. Store Owner. Do I even need to get into this? Nah. (Unlimited) Fake Identities.
  • Underpowered roles/items. In a sense...... all the roles that received only 1 coin/day..... and kind of all the items except for the fake identity xD I don't even understand the first aid kit....
  • Overal mechanics at times. Just like you mentioned yourself; killing was rather.... hard (combination if skills of roles & items). Also a special mention here for the Fake IDs... how they effected the deadlines....... no good - needs a different implementation
  • Changes while the game is running... just too many of them...stuff should be clear/tested/verified/validated from the start on - exceptions remain of course. Certain abilities/actions/options/etc were rather ambiguous.
  • Day lengths. Too long for my taste - especially considering there wasn't all that much 'going on' - mightve maybe even combined the phase for picking mayor and lynching.... Perhaps with a 1h window in between them - updatewise (so, you can still perform both your things in the same moment, but after the election has been run, there's a small window in which changes can occur, if so desired - certainly in the start of the game, one will not dare to make very sudden movements, as one is likely to get punished for such actions in the next phase).
  • Information deal - I wanted to '(ab)use' this soooooooo very much...... but was never allowed :(

I suppose that's about it, for what I can think of now.

As for stuff that I (really) enjoyed - always end with the positive ;)

  • Very enthusiastic host. Very friendly. Very helpful. Very active/responsive. Very willing. Very..... etc ^^
  • Spraypaints - 'nuff said.
  • #36 <3
  • Creative writing
  • You seem to have made graphs.... lol.... nerd.... #IFullyApprove:D
  • An attempt to make the roles less important - currency introduced - concept is cool; just not all that satisfied with how it turned out :p (Store Owner? :D)

As for the MVP to Anax..... I can fully understand and agree with it - afterall, he did win the game. But I also think that is more to blame to town being so incredibly .... weird? :D rather than Anax making the best possible moves :p

https://dominating12.com/forums/5/off-topic/3084/money-and-masks-game-thread/post/53948#post-53948 - roleclaim by Anaxagore
https://dominating12.com/forums/5/off-topic/3084/money-and-masks-game-thread/post/53951#post-53951 - full on #rage response on Anax' blatant #$%$%$ role claim....
https://dominating12.com/forums/5/off-topic/3084/money-and-masks-game-thread/post/53963#post-53963 - asking host to respond on his roleclaim....... that's just..... #NO.

I truly can't believe he managed to survive that.... yes, he got very lucky with syg coming out as inventor with an elixer... but #1 he didnt know about this happening, #2, it shouldn't have kept him alive xD that role was just too much.... I would've never let that happen if I was known to the community here, but now I wasn't... so I just had to tag along.... there was a whole lot in this game that I just 'allowed' to happen, as it became rather apparent there was nothing I could do against it...
I also do not understand why/how paulcha ended up siding with Anax..... him being the neutral...... he could side with anyone....... especially when he found out about Anax and all the mafiosi out in the open => just side with town and have a walk in the park. His winclause makes no difference here.

Virtuosity98
The game started off with lots of confusion, no-one really understanding how to find mafia. I deliberately provided non-town players with the town win clause to try and stop the game being based solely off fake Role PM mistakes (after all, I had invested heavily in complex game mechanics). Anaxagore tried to use this to gain everyone’s trust – which only worked momentarily.

Not sure on what you base that noone understood how to find the mafia..... seems obvious to me that you should not expect to find the mafia on the first day/s? :p They'll be found later on, when mistakes are made. Your deliberate seed of the town win-clause... very peculiar... especially with you naming it a mistake in the thread..... now what was it? Either way - I'm not too happy about it. Seems to me the mistake was that you allowed so much communcation, which people could 'abuse' to find out with a great amount of certainty whether players belonged to town or not... which should indeed not be possible, so you 'solved' it with that? One can see (in PMs and thread) that I was very much against the idea and only participated to a minimum extent...

Anax' play to 'switch roles' with paulcha was ofc total mastermind - clap clap (just strange that paulcha went along with it...).
The weird protective vest thing... mafia? No clue why that worked...... from my side, it was just another lynch - had nothing against Ely... when he died as a mafia, it was however rather easy to see the other ones.... they did not play that right.

The moment were I managed to get paulcha lynched was imo also rather questionable... very strange that it was allowed to just change the fake votes and to have the deadline extend in such a fashion... rather unjust demise for paulcha... but hey... i had to take all i could ;d
Then it was in my eyes fully obvious, once again, that Anax was the other guy we had to go after (assuming paulcha 'sold' his store owner position - as opposed to reality where he apparently never had it ;d).... but unfortunately, I did not get any support... so that also went down the drain again :D no matter how perfect my logic could be - it would not be accepted.
The 'partnership' with the mafia was also very strange... I discovered that I understood just about nothing of their ideas :p was hard to get to plans with them xD

So far for my 2 cents....

-Alex
“Gravitation cannot be held responsible for people falling in love. How on earth can you explain in terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as first love? Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.”

― Albert Einstein
elysium5 wrote:
Little communication in the thread (I mean that relatively). Just about everything was arranged through PMs - this is not how mafia/werewolves is meant to be played. The main thought behind the game is that almost all the information one gets, is obtained as individuals and, if so desired (/at the right time), publicly shared with everyone else - this thus also ensures that everyone knows who the source of the info is; the source is accountable. Information running behind the scenes should only be allowed for role specific exceptions (e.g. mafia and for town maybe a twin or something) and by means of spraypaint, info can also be shared anonymously (in this limited setup, that adds to the game).

This is impossible to expect in this day and age with so many means of sharing information either on or off the site. To try and limit PM's and keep most of the discussion in the forums only helps players who don't care much about rules and will keep playing outside the box anyway. It is something that must be dealt with by evolving with the technology that surrounds us.

I really don't see much of a problem with the use of PM's anyway as you need to be involved to know what's going on and this helps ensure that players are. Those who are not communicating with each other and are solely relying on the forum conversations are only playing part of the game anyway, and vice versa.

To me, this is a whole dynamic in itself parsing through both the conversations in the forums and conversations through PM's. It is a good way to both collect and spread information, both true and false. Whichever helps your team win.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
AlexCheckMate wrote:
elysium5
Little communication in the thread (I mean that relatively). Just about everything was arranged through PMs - this is not how mafia/werewolves is meant to be played. The main thought behind the game is that almost all the information one gets, is obtained as individuals and, if so desired (/at the right time), publicly shared with everyone else - this thus also ensures that everyone knows who the source of the info is; the source is accountable. Information running behind the scenes should only be allowed for role specific exceptions (e.g. mafia and for town maybe a twin or something) and by means of spraypaint, info can also be shared anonymously (in this limited setup, that adds to the game).

This is impossible to expect in this day and age with so many means of sharing information either on or off the site. To try and limit PM's and keep most of the discussion in the forums only helps players who don't care much about rules and will keep playing outside the box anyway. It is something that must be dealt with by evolving with the technology that surrounds us.
Code of honour? I've got no issue just trusting people to play by the rules oO People who get caught cheating => kicked out (for other games too)?

elysium5
I really don't see much of a problem with the use of PM's anyway as you need to be involved to know what's going on and this helps ensure that players are. Those who are not communicating with each other and are solely relying on the forum conversations are only playing part of the game anyway, and vice versa.
Because like that, there could be select groups that gather all the information. Some people will always be more active than others - activity should not be awarded too much. Next to this, accountability comes more into play. Everyone will know for a fact who said what, rather than just 'trust' what people share from PMs or whatever. Do not think the PM part needs to be present/big.

elysium5
To me, this is a whole dynamic in itself parsing through both the conversations in the forums and conversations through PM's. It is a good way to both collect and spread information, both true and false. Whichever helps your team win.
I guess we agree to disagree :P might just be personal preference =d

-Alex
“Gravitation cannot be held responsible for people falling in love. How on earth can you explain in terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as first love? Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.”

― Albert Einstein
elysium5 wrote:
Another point to make is that the mafia games were brought back to life here with the intention of recruiting players new to mafia by playing more basic games and being a little less strict with the rules. While complicated games can be fun for experienced players, those without much experience and especially those who can't sit at their computers 24/7 in order to be active constantly but would like to learn and participate as they can need these games to be a little more relaxed and accommodating to them as well.

We actually agreed to host both simple and complicated games back and forth just so both inexperienced players can be introduced to this awesome game and more experienced players can enjoy the complicated one's as well.

Shout out to everyone here, the host, the players and the discussions on how to improve the game are always good things to talk about but just remember one thing; mistakes will be made playing and mistakes will be made hosting but the biggest mistake is to take the fun out of a game by trying to make it perfect all of the time.

I would say that's my 2 cents but I spent all of my money at the store;)
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."