Outremer

[quote=Hoodlum][quote=Dima]okay, i am haply that this version is fine! i must say, that i also tend to prefer this version. btw, regarding the size propprtions: i checked out France, North America, Brazil and the two GoT maps and they have almost the same proportions as this map, basicly a square. [/quote] BECAUSE THEY ARE BIG MAPS[/quote] Well Hoodum in the map making manual from aeronautic there are no manuals regarding the image size of big/small/middle maps. Basicly the image size and map size are not tied to each other. The width must be 1024 and the high everything between 600 and 900 pixels. And since all these maps I mentioned have a hight slightly above 900 pixls and are being played very often & enjoy high popularity, then it might make sense to question some of the older rules, atleast sometimes and maybe apply them in a more flexible way ;) . I would simply go with the current size and see how well the maps fares among the player base. If its popular, then everything is okay.

Ok then I'll just rewrite the manual. NP. Just so its clear and u dont waste your time.

[b]D12 Map Design Guidelines: Composition & Orientation[/b] To maintain consistency across all D12 maps, every designer must follow these foundational steps before adding artistic detail. Our goal is to maximize the playable area while minimizing unnecessary scrolling. 1. Define the Canvas First Every map starts with its Dimensions. Before drawing geography, ensure you have allocated specific "UI zones" for: Map Title: Clear, legible placement. Minimap: For navigation and strategic overview. Legend/Metadata: Room for territory counts or special rules. 2. Optimize Geography & Orientation We do not use default "North-is-Up" orientations if they create wasted space. Use a Compass Rose to indicate true North, but rotate the landmass to fit the screen efficiently. Rotated Maps: Use rotation to fit long or diagonal landmasses into a horizontal frame (e.g., Italy, Philippines, Gold Coast). The "No-Scroll" Rule: If a map is small or medium-sized, it must fit the viewport. Do not force a scroll where it isn't needed. 3. Scaling for Territory Density Small Maps: Keep them compact. Do not artificially inflate the dimensions; figure out the most efficient layout for the territory count. Large Maps: Scrolling is only allowable for "Big" maps with a high volume of territories where a single-screen view would compromise legibility. [spoiler=EXAMPLE][img]https://i.imgur.com/wmupEZy.png[/img] [i]Still BIG, but not unnecessarily MASSIVE for a small amount of territories [/i] [/spoiler]

No wait, sorry Hood, I think we should respect the [u]north orientation[/u] convention as much as possible, as we have always done. It was mandatory during Vexer's times, aeronautic had to ask permission to rotate Italy 15 degrees, you split New Zealand into 2 pieces in order to preserve the north orientation, and I think it was an excellent idea in the end. Moreover we have got plenty of tall maps with a relative small number of territories. I could mention: [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/64.large.jpg]Westeros & Essos[/url] 56T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/9.large.jpg]Saturn[/url] 30T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/9.large.jpg]Korea-Japan[/url] 52T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/33.large.jpg]Europe[/url] 48T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/15.large.jpg]Caribbean Dual[/url] 46T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/42.large.jpg]Brazil[/url] 39T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/79.large.jpg]Artic Circle[/url] 34T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/79.large.jpg]Alkebulan Africa[/url] 52T, even Brethren Coast, Australasia and Middle East... All of them are maps that I'd have hated long time ago because I couldn't see the whole playing-area on my screen, but today my screen has a much higher definition and I have no problem to visualize tall maps. In fact nobody complains about that anymore, or at least not much as it was once. Plus today we use smartphones (and even tablets I guess) that can be oriented vertically and horizontally accordingly to the need. Okay, it's still better not to make maps extremely tall, but this one for me had just some too-large writings taking room on the top and the bottom, last Dima's version looks well fixed to me. Another solution for tall maps -- without tilting the map 90 degrees -- is to add some room or drawings on the two sides. Like [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/12.large.jpg]Great Britain & Ireland[/url] and [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/106.large.jpg]Germany[/url] for example.

splitting NZ into 2 pieces wasn't my choice :) you think i want it looking like that? just another messed up nz map. I'd love for it to be a vertical map but i couldn't get away with it at the time due to our d12 map making rules. it deserves to be a vertical map more because it is called North Island and South Island lol. but NZ doesn't matter that much ;)

Whatever change of the map format, we will have to pause all games (just pause not end), then upload the new image and move all the circles, finally un-pause all the games. However pausing Fog games is disruptive, we should add time there and ask people not to play until the update is done.

Beta is for testing gameplay, not for final production. The scale issue was mentioned from day one, and since Beta games often don't finish, they really shouldn't be used in tournaments yet. I’m bringing the size concern up again now so we can actually proceed with development once the gameplay is sorted. There's no rush, but we have to get the basics right.

[quote=Hoodlum]Beta is for testing gameplay, not for final production. The scale issue was mentioned from day one, and since Beta games often don't finish, they really shouldn't be used in tournaments yet. I’m bringing the size concern up again now so we can actually proceed with development once the gameplay is sorted. There's no rush, but we have to get the basics right. [/quote] Hmmm, i dont understand it, I changed the size as much as I could everytime I was asked to do so. Its true that the current hight is a bit bigger than the supposed max. of 900 pixels, but so are some other maps. And in the aeronautics manual, that was done before I started with this map, there were no division between large maps and small maps regarding their size, the maps were just supposed to be between 600 and 900 pixels high, regardless of their big or small amount of territories. So the rule regarding the different size handling of large and small maps is somehow new, atleast I was not familiar with these differentiations. I personally never had any problems with playing on other maps, no matter what proportions they had, whether they were over 900 pixels high or beneath 900 pixels high. I think i didnt even pay attention to this, cuz everything was fine. I am not sure, if its necessary to make much much turmoil about this issue in this case, if the map is almost finished and is playable. Anyway, what do other two map makers think? Regarding using beta maps in the tournaments: Okay, i will cease doing this. Regarding the NZ map: Well, i just looked at it and for me it seems not a big deal to change it into vertical form, similarly to Italy. Both countries have almost identical form, and if it was possible to draw Italy in one piece, then it should work with NZ for sure. I will get home and try to re-arrange it in a way that it fits the max. 900 pixel criteria and is not divided into two halves; i am pretty confidend it will work lol. So i dunno what way of thinking preceeded the NZ map making process, but i am sure, we could solve this problem; we could make it in a way, you like it Hoodlum, basicly two islands are put in their correct positions to each other, instead of being divided. I think it would make it even more authentic. Anyway, i ll get home and take a look.

[quote=Dima][quote=Hoodlum]Beta is for testing gameplay, not for final production. The scale issue was mentioned from day one, and since Beta games often don't finish, they really shouldn't be used in tournaments yet. I’m bringing the size concern up again now so we can actually proceed with development once the gameplay is sorted. There's no rush, but we have to get the basics right. [/quote] Hmmm, i dont understand it, I changed the size as much as I could everytime I was asked to do so. Its true that the current hight is a bit bigger than the supposed max. of 900 pixels, but so are some other maps. And in the aeronautics manual, that was done before I started with this map, there were no division between large maps and small maps regarding their size, the maps were just supposed to be between 600 and 900 pixels high, regardless of their big or small amount of territories. So the rule regarding the different size handling of large and small maps is somehow new, atleast I was not familiar with these differentiations. I personally never had any problems with playing on other maps, no matter what proportions they had, whether they were over 900 pixels high or beneath 900 pixels high. I think i didnt even pay attention to this, cuz everything was fine. I am not sure, if its necessary to make much much turmoil about this issue in this case, if the map is almost finished and is playable. Anyway, what do other two map makers think? Regarding using beta maps in the tournaments: Okay, i will cease doing this. Regarding the NZ map: Well, i just looked at it and for me it seems not a big deal to change it into vertical form, similarly to Italy. Both countries have almost identical form, and if it was possible to draw Italy in one piece, then it should work with NZ for sure. I will get home and try to re-arrange it in a way that it fits the max. 900 pixel criteria and is not divided into two halves; i am pretty confidend it will work lol. So i dunno what way of thinking preceeded the NZ map making process, but i am sure, we could solve this problem; we could make it in a way, you like it Hoodlum, basicly two islands are put in their correct positions to each other, instead of being divided. I think it would make it even more authentic. Anyway, i ll get home and take a look. [/quote] u can keep not understanding it, but it's pretty basic. i even gave u an example to clarify. the current map is way to big for such a small amount of territories. map dimensions are pretty much the first thing you look at when first designing a map for d12. yeah, you started off making big maps, and that's probably where you are confused. but no problem. i am here to save you time with this map, now that you know the direction. gl. if nz is to be reworked i'd rather do it, and I'd probably keep the layout how it is, it works according to our map guidelines. it is the reason i got into map making and the current graphics of the one we have are aeronautics not mine (just gameplay), because I wasn't ready at the time when it was made many years ago. it doesn't bug me that much that it is displayed like this, because i've had the opportunity to put NZ right on many maps. I've also already made a bunch of nz maps in it's proper shape like Australasia, when i reworked World Expanded, World War II, World Double, and even snuck it into Zealandia AD 202020 :) . I only mentioned that I've made a bunch of NZ maps in it's vertical form for leisure. yep it will still work on d12, but respecting the scroll rule :) as all map makers before so have.