Map submission
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naathim wrote:
Which is why I put in a disclaimer lololol. That the danger when working with unfamiliar regions, you don't know local stuff that people who are closer to it know.

Although Bukidnon has a dash in that map to denote that that the whole name could not be fit on a single line. So that stands.

Aguson is Agusan on your map as well.

Bikol is Bicol on that map too.

For Psymon, that's one of the reasons why I didn't think the c. 1900 tag added anything. The map may look older in aesthetic, but it might not have much relation to what the different regions were back then. I think I'd leave it out, just to be on the safe side.
aeronautic wrote:
Thanks naathim & Psymon,

Hoodlum made the graphic text changes and I altered the labels & circles in the Panel to suit what you both recommended.

Philippines is now in Beta.

Congratulations Hoodlum on another great map.
Hyd yn oed er fy mod Cymraeg , dim ond yn siarad Saesneg, felly yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd y cyfieithu yn gywir.
Virtuosity98 wrote:
Congratulations on reaching beta! :D

I have a suggestion of moving the capitals for 2 players from Manilla/Aguson del Sur to Camarines/Lanao.
BEWARE: The image is exceedingly poor! ^^
2Player Caps (click to show)
My reasoning it that there is only one real route between the capitals, 6 steps long [the yellow route] (or 7 steps with a slight variation[the orange route]). Then, the next best route (that doesn't go through Masbate) is 9 steps long [the green routes]. Because it is 3 steps longer, it is not really a suitable alternative route. Effectively, there is only 1 usuable route between the two capitals.
Also, at the moment the player with Aguson del Sur can take his region without blocking himself in, but the player with Manilla cannot.
My Proposal: (click to show)
My proposal has 2 main routes between the capitals, [yellow and pink] with 6 and 7 steps respectively, and one route that incorporates both of the other routes [white] (6 steps). If you are desperate, you can go through the Bangsamoro Islands as a route for 8 steps. I feel that this suggestion offers more viable routes between the capitals, and also the routes are more equal in length.
Also, both Camarines and Lamao are border territories, so one can control the region without blocking oneself inside.


Does anyone else agree?
It is now Day 8. Please submit your Lynch vote, as well as any Role-specific Day actions you wish to perform (countdown).
Day Actions:
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PsymonStark wrote:
Shouldn't this map be called "The Philippines" as in the title?
Living proof that everyone can be a brilliant great good decent cartographer.
aeronautic wrote:
Hoodlum has set up the test games on this map and I joined them all.
I will give feedback now because there is something that may need changing.

First let me say that it really should not be played with any more than 6 players, with which you get just 5 start territories. Any other player amounts will mostly result in some players being all but eliminated before even playing their first turn.

DM seems to be the worst for imbalance of fairness with this map's connectivity, but I see it all as a challenge as long as it is played with 6 players or less, because in an 8 player DM game I had just 6 troops (3 + 3) remaining by round 2 and just about no chance of being an influence in the game whatsoever, whilst others got linked drops and strength within regions that were not to be contested and got to play earlier.
It creates too much imbalance of power for large multi-player games.

The point I would like to suggest is the region bonus for Davao:
This region is harder to take and defend than the other regions on its island. I know it has been discussed, but sometimes I feel we have to throw out the equation for a bonus that obviously has to change.
It would be too much to drop the other two regions (Bangsamoro & Mindanao) to +1 and therefore instead, I suggest keeping them as +2 and making Davao a +3 to account for its greater worth and being bound in and fully attackable by the other two regions.

Graphically, I also need to alter the territory divider in Argusan del Sur, as it is not clear that Davao Oriental can not attack Surigao.
Hyd yn oed er fy mod Cymraeg , dim ond yn siarad Saesneg, felly yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd y cyfieithu yn gywir.
The_Bishop wrote:
The formula it is not wrong because gives a 2.5 result since either +2 and +3 can be right. W.Visayas deserves +3 even more than Davao really, but W.Visayas is already rewarded by a possible expansion in Bonsamoro Islands.

Really Davao doesn't seem so hard to defend and if you keep in mind the super-regional count that southern island is already the juiciest area of the map: 10 territories, 2 borders and a huge +6 as bonus.

You can see a similar super-region also in the north: Luzon + Calabarzon + 2 adjacent territories (Mindoro and Camarines) = 11 territories, 2 borders belonging to external regions and "only" +5 as bonus.

Since if I want to make the super-regions fair I should give only +1 to Davao but then it would be too low for that single region. There is no perfect solution, it's a lack in the map design, but I think the best middle way is to keep it at +2 as it is.

And also I like Virtuosity's two capitals proposal more than how they are right now. Manila is internal with 3 adjacenties only (worse), Auguson is on the region border with 4 adjacenties (better).

Also considering the super-regions that I have mentioned (the northern and the southern) Virtuosity's cap's seem to have an equal role on controlling those borders, the southern super-region is a bit more juicy but the cap is correctly set in Lanao and not in Zamboanga so that he can only defend the +4 bonus using his cap forces and if he want the +6 he has to block himself in.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
aeronautic wrote:
You have freedom as a Cartographer to make the changes to Cap positions, because the whole point of Beta is to find out the pitfalls in the map and correct them. The map is unlocked, so feel free to discuss the Caps and alter them as you see fit. It doesn't affect games already started. (Be sure to have another Cartographer double check them though).

I also trust your judgement on the bonuses. I would however like to point out that whilst you are correct about the super regions being the bonus, I can say that I only saw one opportunity to take so many territories in the south it was me who took it and only in a 3 player game and it took most of the game to achieve it, whereas I have seen numerous easy takes of Luzon, but not the super region in the north.
On that note, I can't see the super regions being of much use or desire to players on this map.
I am happy to leave the Davao region as a +2, but am sure that it will always be avoided in favour of Bangsamoro / Mindanao, unless getting a big drop on it.
Hyd yn oed er fy mod Cymraeg , dim ond yn siarad Saesneg, felly yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd y cyfieithu yn gywir.
The_Bishop wrote:
Yes okay, but Virtuosity as a Cartographer has the duty to make better drawings! :D In spite of that I would like to try his capital placement for 2 players.

@Aero - You are right super-regions will be rarely achieved in this map, but wait, also depends on the number of players, with 3 or 4 players yes, with 7 or 8 no. But I think 3/4 players is more suitable for a this medium/small map.

You have the right to make changes during the beta test even more than me. But okay, being in democracy, we can wait for some more feedback about both subjects:
- 2p Cap's placement;
- Davao region bonus.

Please comment guys! ;)
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
PsymonStark wrote:
I believe that it's totally normal that one regions are more desirable than others (in any map). Thus I wouldn't change the bonus here because the weight of the bonus would go to Mindanao.

The 2p cap, I like it because Agusan and Manila seem quite unfair.
Living proof that everyone can be a brilliant great good decent cartographer.
aeronautic wrote:
Yes, I am fine with the 2p Cap changes proposed by V98.
Hyd yn oed er fy mod Cymraeg , dim ond yn siarad Saesneg, felly yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd y cyfieithu yn gywir.
The_Bishop wrote:
Well, 4 agreements by 4 cartographers seem enough to proceed.

2player Capitals moved
from: Manila / Augusan del Sur
to: Camarines / Lanao

There's no need for doublechecking because you can comfortably check them from the map browser in the "create game" page.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
The_Bishop wrote:
Psymon Stark
Shouldn't this map be called "The Philippines" as in the title?
I don't think so really.

We also have United States map which the graphic title is "The United States" but the name of the map is without "The".
And the same was for the Realm of Honored Players.

Personally I would prefer without article, not a big deal though.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
Vexer wrote:
The Philippines is officially known as the Republic of the Philippines. Everyone in america calls it The Philippines. I've never heard anyone say I went to Philippines. They always say I went to the philippines.

I think it should have a the.
aeronautic wrote:
Even the Filipinos I know personally call it "The Pilippines" (no I didn't leave the 'H' out, they don't pronounce 'PH' as 'F' just as 'P';).
Hyd yn oed er fy mod Cymraeg , dim ond yn siarad Saesneg, felly yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd y cyfieithu yn gywir.