elimination and cards

I don't have time to read every nook and cranny at the moment, but are the programmers aware that if you use 'create game' within the 'Long Term Games' link above, the old game creation screen & options are still available? Shouldn't it be linked to the new one, which even though designed for live games, has the 24hr option on it? Or did you want it to still exist alongside the Beta version?

As long as the new page is still not completely finished and optimised, the old page will be available for use, but eventually it will be removed (or just no longer supported).

The new page is designed for both live and long term, and you can do anything with the old one that you can with the new one (except for advanced cards). I think the new one is nicer to create games, to pick a map, and looks better. The old one is a tad bit faster ;)

Day 5 reflection, see if i can get this in a nutshell; ~ As you said (Cireon): i have failed to convince you that 3+ and 5+ are basically options, and can sit side by side ( that i havent explained the 'advantage') ~ Likewise, you have failed to convince me ( and others) why 3+ option should be either dissolved or treated differently than other options Your main reason appears to be *we'' dont want newbs choosing it . Therefore toggling to the side of 'user friendly' is a 'nannyesque' attempt to discourage its use * obviously you came to agree that it is an enjoyable option enough for many that it should not be utterly dissolved. ( tho i take it that for you, it is a hideous abhorrent aberration that blights the very fiber of decency , thus i applaud the magnanimous gift you granted us by not condemning to death the 3+ option) Which rather means you've conceded its an option. if you already agree its an option, and already agree the password protection is a bit extreme and should be removed, and already have feedback suggesting 5+ will be the more popular option,,, What concerns do you have left? Do you fear it becoming a more popular option? ,, i dont see what further concerns you have that perhaps 1/3 of the people,, experienced and newbs alike will opt for it. Sure a new person will likely play both options, and find what they prefer as time goes by, and according to your ,,data,, the smarter ones will prefer the limitations of the 5+ because avoiding the terror of someone's desperate gambles is more important to most. ~--==========------~ So,, on a side note , lets imagine for a moment the check box that contains Fog , Card sets, and Password , and imagine if 3+ & 5+ shared that box with the dignity both options deserve,, and likewise we as intelligent people deserve ( please, lets not oppress an option just on behalf of the lowest common denominators among us) My thought on this is ,, Sure, you could have *Default (or Standard) and *Advanced ,, with default preselected incase game creators ignore choosing,, however i am not sure these names for the options are optimal ,, Even tho i personally like that we are calling it an 'advanced' option,, calling it that does make it more attractive to anyone who doesnt know what it means , right?, i mean,, its advanced,, ( i know i am attracted to more advanced things anyways) It just seems there would need to be some sort of explanation there that says they are 3+ or 5+ required after conquest . ( after that, you just need to have faith the majority will agree with you and the elitists and more often opt for the 5+) All becomes simplified this way, except eventually i realize there would at best need to be an icon indicator of the set-up for the waiting game on the lobby page ( this may still be the case even if you remain adamant that its best to peripheralize the 3+ option) Please lets not compare D12 to the old board game or the other Risk sites . There would be no good reason to devolve D12 to be more like the inferior sites that only offer the 5+ and few options. (some have pointed out that the 3+ is precisely what attracted them here) the variety of choice ALWAYS makes for a superior site.

,,ANyways, one thing for SURE is, most of us who have tried to get a game going with 'advanced' & Password control have failed , and potentially suffer the discontent of having to explain to people why its more complicated , until it gets simplified. Lets not worry about the chronic noobs, most newbs here are smart people who learn and improve as they go

@ Axobongo, if you click Long Term games (top right), there's a link where it always was for [Create Game] on the grey bar underneath the heading, which is the old create game setting and options, if you use this, you can have a live game just like before, I would even bet that it mentions nothing about advanced cards nor forces you to password the game. I believe this is what would suit your needs and those that prefer the old card / setup rules! The programmers probably won't like me telling you this, as it will eventually be unsupported, but only when the beta version is fully optimised for speed. But I believe that since it is something they know about and that I asked about its presence above, there is no problem in using it!? [quote=Matty]The new page is designed for both live and long term, and you can do anything with the old one that you can with the new one (except for advanced cards). I think the new one is nicer to create games, to pick a map, and looks better. The old one is a tad bit faster ;)[/quote]

[quote=aeronautic]This could be a vital factor in my re-joining this fabulous community, something I felt reluctant to leave, but had little choice, due to what I felt was its inevitable demise! I am now filled with optimism and am happy to see light at the end of the tunnel.[/quote] [quote=Spamfree]BTW I hadn't read aeronautic's comments while editing this huge post but I am glad he is reconsidering quiting :)[/quote] I never said I am reconsidering quitting, I said "it could be a vital factor in my [b]re-joining[/b] this fabulous community". Maybe one day, let me get these tourneys and long term games out of the way so I can [b]actually leave[/b] and maybe one day I'll check in and see what the situation is. BTW... what is the hold up with the 2v2 tourney final? Oh didn't you hear? DeathFromAbove (aeronautic & Sygmassacre) are in the Final!! Just using my bragging rights! Right back to the thread.... [list] [li]Are there any major problems with stalemates yet?... Maybe too early to tell as long term games are where they happen mostly.[/li] [li]I see suicidal attacks are decreasing![/li] [li]I see about the same amount of cheating teamers! (They'll always be here).[/li] [li]I see rank attacks still happen, but less frequently![/li] [li]I see crazy undermanned spite attacks getting lucky and from supposedly very experienced players playing to lose, still happen!.. What can be done about that?... Nothing much! Apart from the big boot!![/li] [/list] The staff will have a broader view of the new situation with the new rate of complaints about the above points. In my opinion, all in all it is slightly better since the rule change, but it will never be perfect with either rule, but better is good and that matters, however.... perfect is best! Accept the current situation, live with it and do the best you can with it, but that's not for me! Instead, I will create a thread that could truly sort out all the problems discussed over & over here with no real solution. Come and read it [url=http://www.dominating12.com/forum/?cmd=topic&act=view&id=1418&board=20&lastpost=1#post-19437]here![/url]

Why is 'advanced' cards still password blocked!!!??? NoobaPhobia?!?!

The password requirement will not be removed until other changes have been made to prevent any confusion and problems.

Confusion?? Why is it any more confusing to give card turn-in options side-by-side, than to have "Increasing" with "Capped" and "Fixed" and "No Cards" or to have "Unlimited" beside "Chained" or "Adjacent" or to have "Deathmatch" with "Capitals" and "Domination" or to have "Consecutive" with "Same Time (beta)"? In the older "Create Game" each was presented equally with pop-up info describing the options. Why would similar treatment of "Advanced Increasing" be any more confusing than those? The confusion is merely an excuse to make it more difficult to select the option, thereby giving "Advanced" players a clear flag (password protected) to insure that they don't accidentally stumble into an "Advanced Increasing" game. As an option, if the description were added as in my examples above, noobs would be no more confused than they are with any other option offered on this site but "Advanced" players seeking to avoid the "Advanced Increasing" option would have to pay closer attention to the games they join. [size=8]Cireon, the smileys still are not quite right.[/size]

The confusion is not meant in [i]creating[/i] the games, but in [i]joining[/i] the games where the difference is currently not clear enough. That is why we are limited it to password protected games, so that it becomes harder to accidently join an advanced game. And yes, I haven't worked on the smileys yet. I have a very busy life next to this site as well, you know? ;)

Is it difficult to view the game and look at the bottom ledger before joining?

I agree that "Advanced increasing" is not only a misnomer but is exceedingly ambiguous. Why not make the option less ambiguous by calling it something descriptive like "3+" v. "5+" mid-turn trade-ins or something along those lines? Again though, it seems the implementation is specifically hobbled to make it easier for those looking to avoid games with the option set (who usually know what it means already) to join games without fear of accidentally straying into such a game due to not paying attention to game settings. Thereby making it more difficult for those of us who would prefer the option be set, to create and fill such games.

Advanced increasing is hardly a misnomer. It takes a skilled (advanced) player to know when it's a good idea to kill a player for a chance to turn in with less than 5 cards. We are considering what you all are saying but it's not coming across as constructive feedback. It feels like complaining. You realize all the programmers are volunteers right? If we get frustrated because of the constant complaints without giving us adequate time to sort things out then we all quit and you are left with a site with no updates at all. I'm personally frustrated because I can't even keep up with the forum threads. Too many posts repeating themselves. We told you we are working on a way to remove the password requirement. Let us do that work. We can't do that work if we spend all our time reading and responding to these posts. Give us a break until we remove the password option. Then tell us what needs work next. One thing at a time. Stop overwhelming us. It's too much. I work 50+ hours at work and Cireon and Matty have a busy school schedule. We certainly have other things to do with our time. So give us a break. You don't have to get all your complaints out at once. You told us you don't like the password requirement, we will work on that first and ignore everything else you say until that is done. After it's done, then you can evaluate the change and tell us what is next.

'advanced' cards is intentionally confusing , for that i call 'shenanigans'! i call for the community to be respected as intelligent even if odds are a certain % will never be intelligent. These are the facts: turning in 3 cards gained after a conquest, or being restricted to 'only' if you have 5 cards , are both simply 2 options. 3+ and 5+ they both have advantages and disadvantages 3+ is a far better game , allows a player to survive by the skin of their teeth at times 5+ gives advantage to the one already with an advantage, But the 5+ rule is really all about elite players fearing the illogical play by inexperienced players, its also an attempt at manipulation of a minor portion of the community. Meanwhile those of us of the community that have learned to play, have to suffer the indignity of changes made just to zero in on the 5% who dont play well , and who do illogical things in games (about 5% of the time) which result in upsetting the elites who want everyone to follow predictable logic or they get all in a tizzy. i submit we can all handle choosing a 3+ or 5+ option, no need for password protection,, no need to be calling something 'advanced' but offering no explanation as to what that means ,, no need to argue that D12 should be more like other sites with more limited options ,, My dudes, they really are just 2 options. Promising 2 differing game dynamics,, Really fun for us who play smarter to enjoy with others who play decently too.