elimination and cards

I was discussing, with [url=http://www.dominating12.com//index.php?cmd=member&sec=profile&act=view&id=5025]Matty[/url], in the Live Game chat, the recent (re)implementation of the 5+ turn-in rule. The change has been made but the "Advanced cards" option (where a set is a set, without regard to number of cards held at a mid-turn turn-in) is [i][u][b]ONLY[/b][/u] available from the "[url=http://www.dominating12.com//?cmd=game&sec=create_beta]Create Game (beta)[/url]" (located in the "[url=http://www.dominating12.com//?cmd=game&sec=list]Long Term Games[/url]") and [u][b]ONLY[/b][/u] for password protected games.[/i]This seems to me to be a "bait and switch" from what has been discussed in the thread thus far. [url=http://www.dominating12.com//index.php?cmd=member&sec=profile&act=view&id=5025]Matty[/url] confirmed that, contrary to my inference (and, I suspect, the inferences of others here), there is no plan to implement the "Advanced cards" option for all games. This deal gets worse and worse all the time. [spoiler]I absolutely [b][i][u]DESPISE[/u][/i][/b] using the "[url=http://www.dominating12.com//?cmd=game&sec=create_beta]Create Game (beta)[/url]" and believe that though this change has been largely pushed by "Advanced" players (or as [url=http://www.dominating12.com//index.php?cmd=member&sec=profile&act=view&id=5025]Matty[/url] pointed out in the chat "advanced players that play with newbies alot (play live alot)") and therefore should have been (re)implemented as the "Advanced cards" option, instead of the default, it was made the default so that those same "Advanced" users would have their preferred settings as the default because, as [url=http://www.dominating12.com//index.php?cmd=member&sec=profile&act=view&id=5025]Matty[/url] put it, "...new players tend to pick defaults (and they should), wheres advanced players can pick advanced options", and those of us who would choose the "Set is a set" card option will tire of the exceedingly difficult creation process and the fact that it can only be used for password protected games, so that the option will not be used and will ultimately be removed (like so many discontinued maps). [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyenRCJ_4Ww&feature=player_detailpage#t=12[/youtube] [/spoiler]

This morning I noticed one of my cards (on the map Westros) had the following next to it: (normal +5) What does that mean? I don't recall ever having seen that before.

SpamFree, I am not sure if you're aware that the create game page that is currently called beta will eventually replace the current create game page. I myself was the one opting for only putting it on the new page. Firstly this would reduce the amount of work because it would only have to be added on one page, but secondly and most importantly: the beta create game page has (or will have) the option to hide advanced options. This will be turned off by default and can be toggled on (don't worry, your preference will be saved on your account). As you might read back in this thread, I was strongly against adding new options. I redesigned the beta page myself mainly to have a clearer interface for "noob players", while also speeding up the process for other members and make it clearer, because the old page became messy with all the new options we were adding. The current solution is a compromis that was received positively by a majority of the people involved in the discussion. If you can't bother clicking a single button and adding a password to your games to have your advanced option back: bad luck. In the end, we have a large community to run and we can't make everyone as happy as possible. This is a solution we came up with that gives everyone what they want, so why are we still discussing this? If you're so despising using the new create game page, then why haven't you shared your feedback yet on making it better instead of just screaming about how you hate it?

[quote=Clarke - Dec 31, 12:34 PM]This morning I noticed one of my cards (on the map Westros) had the following next to it: (normal +5) What does that mean? I don't recall ever having seen that before.[/quote] I assume that means you are using the old turn in mode, where you can only turn in after killing someone if you have five or more cards, as opposed to the advanced rule, where you can turn in after you killed someone no matter the amount of cards, as long as you have a set.

@SpamFree, the advanced cards will not be discontinued, as I like it too much ;)

@Clarke: The game should now show to use Advanced Cards. All old games should keep their turn in value, otherwise it might be unfair. I forgot some games in my query... My bad.

As the guy who have reopened this topic, am very glad to see that you have changed the rules, although i haven't been so active last 2-3 months. Special thanks goes to The_Bishop, MuzuaneAskari and Thorpe, for their initial support. Also i apologize for not taking a part, after i have reopened it. Happy New Year, everyone!

Glad you are back

When I watch a game, is there some way to distinguish if it is 'normal rule' or 'advanced rule' ?

why doesnt it just have 2 options under 'Card Sets' catagory A) ~ Turn in conquest set 3+ B) ~ Turn in conquest set 5 only or something like that, no default but a choice for either? ''Advanced cards'' is vague and unfairly designed to be seldom used or understood * And,, if you think about it, you could also require that that question be answered when people create games~ This is a good way to draw attention to the change and educate those who never read the forums *like password protection,, the game wont start unless that one question is answered

PS. This is so important a setting,( and a change) that it should have its own icon on the main page. Until then, the special box in create a game which i suggested ( that requires attention) is a hands on way for people to quickly learn what they prefer , and you will be able to get the data on 'peoples choice' more fairly . PPS. above i meant that the A) & B) question must be answered to allow game start , gives a chance for a pop up to explain the choice better than the button 'name'.

I do not agree. I would never want to put attention to this option. In my opinion, people should just go with the default option unless they know what they are doing. Now you are forcing noob players to figure out what this weird alternative card turn in rule is. That is not desirable. You should only get introduced to these advanced topics when you are an advanced player. You say: [quote]''Advanced cards'' is vague and unfairly designed to be seldom used or understood[/quote] Yes, as it is meant to be. We have seen that the new rule has a negative effect on the amount of suicides and ruined games, so we went back to the old rule. We kept the old rule in place for the (considerably small) group of people that still wants to play with the new rule, so in my opinion you should be thankful there is still a thing to click to play the new rule, against my strong wish to not have an option.

only you and a select club more attracted to this 'rule' you began with on D12 knows these things,, they are meaningless to the majority of us collectively saying ''wtf?? '' oh yes, its so the elitists can play with less frustration in all those noob games they join! here i just offered some VERY sound practical advise on a FAIR middle road, and educational road, and a simple way to cope with this STUPID change,, your insistence on trying to KILL the previous default ,, which IS FAR BETTER than the change i find utterly disgusting i might be the first casualty in the repercussions of this nasty selfish business on the part of you elitists! this has become more 'ego' that practical or for the good of the majority, or even the site, its all about YOUr selfish desire to suffer 'noob; strategy a bit less,, wtf are you playing with noobs for anyways?? from 2012-2014 alot of people enjoyed D12 and bought premiums,, now you rip them off by changing the product!!, AND intentionally trying to make it harder for anyone to play the way we prefer!! There is no reasonable reason why a simple A) and B) choice isnt best, That truly WOULD be the best way to gain data on which the majority prefer! ahh, but you dont give a flying waffle for what people prefer, to hell with those who bought premiums this year,, YOU know whats best for everyone!! all because you cant handle losing a couple of games when you venture into noob territory,, STOP PLAYING NOOBS and solve that problem!! well i hope you win win win and stomp noob after noob and get alot of points! since THAT is obviously more important to you than SOUND BUSINESS CHOICES or FAIR COMMUNITY PRACTICES,, !!! Run it the way i suggested for 6 months,, or a year,, BE FAIR dammit!! Here is a great idea,, just refuse to allow noobs to play D12,, kick them for not using your ideas of strategy, for not following your idea of formula play! , just make an elitist risk and to hell with options and noobs,, they mess your games too much,, i assume this new ''decision'' has something to do with the decline of interest and memberships in 2013 since the card set rule??? ,, or has D12 been growing? ,,and you want to mess with the recipe?? for shame!! Typical gamer Cireon,, you dont want to just win, you want to annihilate something you dont like!! No middle ground,, no quarter,, here you won the struggle to implement an old rule you fondly remember as the one you began with and like best,, yet ''disagree'' with the perfect solution to let people play with a setting they like, PLUS the obvious logic of letting all of us knowing at a glance if its a 3+ or 5+ conquest set turn-in! sure i took it one step further and said 'make' people aware of this NEW change and option by requiring the choice before game can start,, cmon!!,, its so much better than the virtual 'secret council' that determined this abhorrent and selfish change and MOST D12 players are oblivious to, but will learn the hard way. People will choose an option one game then the other the next, in no time they will know what they prefer,, and the D12 admin will know what is most popular without question! There was a sense of community that i was certain mattered to D12 admin.. now i am not so sure,, Noob snobbery is typical,, but when the admin. has a problem with noobs,, then ''Houston, we have a problem'' May i remind you that you WANT noobs? new joiners!,, the exciting and less predictable game serves that purpose more than this new way (which i personally will refuse to play out of the principal that the change has been made cruelly unfair to the majority to please a few of the elite!,, hell, i am seriously considering ending my love affair with D12 over this) do i sound extra furious? i guess i am, i offered sound 'feedback' and a very viable, logical and sensitive solution to the issue,, and i still get negative response as my only response!?! Man i am sooooo glad i didnt buy the premium, i would be so furious i would be demanding my money back, if you were a business in my town i would take you to court for showing no rational reasonable smart business and community respect in introducing a DRAMATIC and devastating change to the precise thing that sold us to begin with,, And spam was right,, the old ''bait and switch'' has happened here! Shame on anyone who is pleased with themselves for making others suffer their preference and weeding out an awareness of another option which is not near unanimously agreed upon, in fact its highly controversial, l and i personally AM 100% CERTAIN 3+ is better than 5+ for ME, no matter what many of you say! And i am 100% certain its better for the community and business and accommodates the learning curve best. And praise to anyone who dares agree with me that a simple A) B) option is most just and wise ,, regardless of our personal preferences,, its neutral and egalitarian. 'this rant brought to you by 'the Mad Guys' at Axo industries,, and sponsored by Cireons highly disappointing response to clearly sound logic'

*ps, if you prefer FOG games and 24 hr games, just make ThEm the default,, and stroll through D12 like a king or dictator that has everything just how they like it without an iota of concern for what the majority prefer.

Well, Axobongo, I for one certainly don't agree with you. You are, of course allowed your opinion, as I am allowed mine and my opinion is that your post, while it is your opinion, is very disrespectful as well.