time for change?
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4myGod wrote:
Yeah, why did you want to keep skill points rubntug?

I was thinking perhaps to use the skill point system for clan vs clan battles, but using maybe a better version of the point system for ranks.
thaithai wrote:
sorry i am bad English so i often ignore long comment.today i am boring i read long comment.
if i played greater than 200 game ,u would play well . problem is not understanding new map and unlucky.
when i joined this site l lose almost in 50 former game.because i didn't see the port in Panama map and played bad.after all i began win the games.problem is u need lucky and know the map.
i see 1771 and rubntug and others play as well as me.why i have to lose much point when i lose them.
we need a system "games on map" ,that means u will get less point on the map u play much.everyone have 10 former game on each map.u will lose 50% default points for 10 former game and get double for win.then all thing is normal
or the point u get and lose depend on "finish game on each map".and we need limited in "% point" we get extra
i win the game by lucky

4myGod wrote:
Ok guys, I think I have an idea. Our competitions site is good using these points perhaps, it's instant gratification.

Competitions formula

(loser's score / winner's score) * 20

Everyone starts with 1000 points. So if someone with 1000 points beats someone with 1000 points:

(1000/1000) * 20 = 20
Loser -20, winner +20

1. The first problem with this is that if you are playing a 4 person game, and you know you are going to lose, you will want to suicide into the lowest ranking player, because if they win you will lose the most points.

2. Players play deadbeat new players to get free points.

My proposal

(average score of all players/losers score)*20

Let's compare the 2 formulas with an example game. First we will see what is lost and gained if the low player wins then what is lost and gained if the high player wins, high and low referring to points. So here are the scores of the players in a game:
Player 1 - 500 points
Player 2 - 500 points
Player 3 - 250 points
Player 4 - 750 points

The Average (500+500+250+750)/4 players = 500

Low player wins

Our method
Player 1 -20
Player 2 -20
*Player 3 +70
Player 4 -30

Competitions method
Player 1 -40
Player 2 -40
*Player 3 +140
Player 4 -60

Average player wins

Our method
*Player 1 +60
Player 2 -20
Player 3 -10
Player 4 -30

Competitions method
*Player 1 +60
Player 2 -20
Player 3 -10
Player 4 -30

High player wins

Our method
Player 1 -20
Player 2 -20
Player 3 -10
*Player 4 +50

Competitions method
Player 1 -13
Player 2 -13
Player 3 -7
*Player 4 +33

This would solve Problem #1, however Problem #2 would still be there. So I was thinking to have something where users who played less than 25 games or like less than 100 turns are considered "beginners" and you can only gain half of what you would normally gain from them. Something like this.

Thoughts?
thaithai wrote:
what happen when u apply new rank system.will u reset the rank
u give example but duplicate value 500 point and 500=250*2 and 750=250*3.i need another example.
4myGod wrote:
When we change systems I will give enough points so that everyone can keep their current rank.

So the formula:
(Losers score/Average score of all players)*20

Another example. So let's say we have 4 players:
Player 1 has 1320 points
Player 2 has 250 points
Player 3 has 2000 points
Player 4 has 2460 points

So first we must find what the average score is, so we must add them all together and divide by the number of players, 4.

(1320+250+2000+2460)/4 = 1507.5

So 1507.5 is the average. So to figure out how many points each player loses:

Player 1 - (1320/1507.5)*20 = 17.5
Player 2 - (250/1507.5)*20 = 3.3
Player 3 - (2000/1507.5)*20 = 26.5
Player 4 - (2460/1507.5)*20 = 32.6

So if they lose, that is what they will lose, it doesn't matter who wins. The person who wins will gain whatever they lose. So if the new guy (Player 2) wins he will earn 76.6 points. For winning against all those good players. If the top player (Player 4) wins, he will earn 47.3 points.

It's very similar to cc's method except instead of (loser/winner) it's (loser/average score). This way it doesn't matter who wins, also, if there is a very bad player in the game, he will lower the average, if there is a very good player in the game he will raise the average.
thaithai wrote:
first thing:Emmdizzle don't play game on cc because he know if he lose he will lose much point.i don't see then man having high rank create a regular game on cc.and new system is similar with cc rank
second thing:i always suppose the luckest man will win the game.so why i must lose greater point.
third thing:there is a error in new system.in 1 vs 1 .the average is always greater than half of points of higher rank.so he always get receive greater than 10 point.
such as
player 1:10 points
player 2:1000 points
average = 505 so player 2 will get 10 point per a win.
u can't ban 1vs1 .so i only need clone acc.don't tell me that u will ban who clone acc.u can't know who use multi acc
4myGod wrote:
Hold on a sec. I'm lost, maybe I confused the math. I don't see how you got 10.

Player 1 has 10 points.
Player 2 has 1000 points.
So the average is 505.
So player 2 wins.
(Losers Score (10)/Avg. (505))*20 = 0.3 (1 point)
(10/505)*20 = 0.3

If Player 1 wins:
(1000/505)*20 = 39.6

If Emmdizzle plays games against lower ranking players on cc he will lose a ton of points. But he would lose less with this new system.

Example game:
Emmdizzle 4964 points
thaithai 1773 points
Tracita 1602 points
Avg. 2246

He would lose -44 points if thaithai won on our site. On cc's site if thaithai won he would lose -55 points. That's when he plays players who are 3000 points below him. He should be winning against those types of players. If he did win on our site he'd get 29 points. It evens itself out, because the points are suppose to be an accurate example of where your skill level is.

Some games are determined by luck thaithai, especially 1 vs 1, but not all games. There is skill, that's why Emmdizzle wins nearly everytime, that's why YOU are above me. Luck plays it's part, but it takes skill to get to the top of ranks.

I can't find out for sure if someone uses a multi, but I can find out if there are 2 accounts in the same household, and I WILL ban suspected multiple accounts.
1771 wrote:
the only problem i have with the ranking system is not having enough tokens to get the next available rank or in my case ranks i could be a warrant officer right now but im 1850 tokens away which is an incredible amount, personally i would like to be able to win tokens with my wins, just like skill points, or maybe some form of a tournament to where the winner gets so many tokens, be able to purchase so many tokens a month or year, having enough tokens is what is really hurting me being able to boost in status. needing 1800 tokens will take me playing 900 games which i don't mind doing but really how long is that going to take? i fiure by the time i do get the 1800 tokens i will need a boat load more for whatever rank i will have the skill points for then. my suggestion would be for a way to earn more tokens than just 20 a game. i would even be willing to put up some of the skill points i have against other peoples skill points, but everyone doesn't or wouldn't be willing to gamble. I NEED TOKENS!!!lol!!! Seph buddy can i borrow some of yours?
rubntug wrote:
i like the skill points method personally, just wish there could be a way to earn points to buy the skill points, with your idea 4mygod?? points work tho---just nervous as to the infighting it causes in CC when there is dead beats, suicides and such. Could instigate multies like never before and it would not take long to have to devote a huge chunk of time handling those complaints, or have to hire. Skill points defeat that obstacle. Is there a way we can play for a small amount of points to get skill points?? Flate rates??
rubntug wrote:
You know i like u 1771--your a good player, if you got the skill points of a warrant Officer(150) you must tell me what your doing cause your standings list is average, lots of lower ranks in there--you got all those for having a plus talley against the 2 top ranks??--if so kudo's. Unless you have been stock piling you tokens to go from L.C to W.O you would need a total of 5800 tokens--you need to buy but each rank--thats only 290 more games........
rubntug wrote:
THanks for working on this ranking situation 4mygod, it's a tough one...to have a really decent system in place with only 1 flaw, no instant reward....is it possible to perhaps create a log within the game that might say---if player 1 wins, he'll earn XX skill points, if player 2 wins they would earn XX points and so on. For the total table??--. Just shootin ideas out there
4myGod wrote:
1771: There will be tournaments in the future where you will earn more tokens. You can also earn up to 500 tokens for inviting a new player, if they play 25 games after being invited.

rubntug: I really really want players to get hooked. I want them to feel the way I felt on cc for that short amount of time. When I got those points it was like my loot, all of a sudden I saw a way of getting high rank. I was taking something that was someone elses every time I won. I don't know, I liked it.

I think our skill points are a more accurate judge of skill, and they can be fun at times. But the flaws are no instant gratification, can be daunting to think you have to win 20 or 30 more times against someone just to get their points, and a new player can come in, win 1 game perhaps but luck against a good player, then choose to never play that good player again.

So having to win 20 or 30 games is tough to look at, however it's meant so that if you aren't better than someone you just aren't better than them, so you aren't going to win those games. If you were better than everyone then naturally your games would start showing that.

Now a bad player or new player only has to win 1 game against a good player and they will have a tally against them at first. After winning that game they can blacklist that player or red flag them and refuse to play with that player again for the sake of keeping their points. Winning once against thaithai might earn like 500 skill points. So to keep those points, especially if you know you won't win again, it's best to not play thaithai again.

I think skill points are working well in this small community where we each play each other a lot, so our above and below totals become an accurate comparison of our skill. However with many people on the site there is a good chance you might only play someone once unless you like them. It happens sometimes where a game can be won by chance, or by the lack of skill in another player, or someone suiciding or whatever. Now when these things happen a player who shouldn't have won might accidentally win. If they don't play those guys again it doesn't have a chance to even out their score. So this is a problem as well, perhaps not too major, but avoiding games with a big player because you don't want to lose your points from being above him will be a problem.

The point system makes it so that a single game doesn't effect the overall score too much, so there is room for mistakes, and every time you play a game with people you are evening out your score to slowly equal your skill.

The point system also not only fulfills that instant gratification but it gives you an immediate goal that you can try for and calculate. Nobody understands the skill points except for a few people, and trying to explain the skill points is quite difficult and would take a detailed description.

I can't think of any way to merge points and skill points or battle points. I'll keep pondering this. I'd like to figure out something before november, I plan to do some big advertising then.
rubntug wrote:
Looking forward to it---i understand what your saying as well, i over looked that point