Suggestions for improving same time games

Disabling add time and auto card trade is really cool, the banner is okay because you can scroll up to e place you need to place your army and place army immediately after. I prefer to have a begin turn click like consecutive game have in danger time game.

One more suggestion. I'm aware this one might be controversial/unpopular. I think quite a number of regulars who play consecutive turn games a lot are put off by same time based on very limited experience of the game. I'm talking to people who are quite good at consecutive turn games, who have amassed a large number of points, and who enjoy going up in points/rank. Some of these people will have 'experienced' same time in a game with a sametime god, thought that same time involves some dark magic and fast reaction times, and decided not to try again, as they'd just be giving their hard earned points away. With the aim to have more people playing same time, it would be nice if we could break that same time taboo, and let these players try out same time without risking their points. What do people think?

This idea is already on the cards, but it'll take a bit. But yeah, it's a good idea in itself.

Ya, i thought I was 100% for the idea, but in saying that, some of us lost 1000's of points and [b]earned[/b] to get decent at sametime, as you are doing Machavelli. Others (pro's) who don't play sametime think it's an inferior game-mode, and I have had to defend at times that it is an earned skill, through observing, understanding and game experience. I do think that 2p games should be 'pointless' but should still have some good incentive like tokens, to buy rank, game modes, play maps etc. Good for development. Players can learn the basics of sametime games in 2p games. New players need tokens. High ranks avoid 2p games like the plague because they lose to many points, but they have tonnes of tokens by now with nothing to use them on. 2p games are games you play to kill time, learn the interface (experienced players would be willing to help more without the fear of losing precious points!) 2p token games! More top ranks playing 2p games in live lobby (not hiding in long term) Learn same time basics Token incentive for new players. Fun token incentive for experienced players.. win win

Something else (sorry!) I think this is probably a bug: sometimes the ticked boxes of the cards reset. Either after X time, or perhaps when someone else has handed in cards (anyone know the exact behaviour of the bug?). Either way, this can often get you killed (in particular in same time caps).

The ticked boxes will reset every 7 seconds if something on the board has changed. If no one else is taking their turn then they won't reset.

Vexer, are you going to have input into the re-write sametime? Will the toggle between gamechat, and gamelog still work as a refresh? Current test games played on beta site, I don't think it works the same. Some of the following has already been mentioned, but I will sum them all up. I think how it is...long term, live games. is the best it's been since Vexers tweaks. [b]Add Time[/b] Disabling add time for Sametime (players turning the game into a consecutive one). We resort to using it because we have to as others do it and it's required at times, but it's cringing when it's happening against you. Just annoying, and defeats the purpose of it being sametime, or whatever the time limit is set to. This trick get's frowned on by some.. Fair to just have it disabled in sametime games. Defeats the purpose of it being sametime, and it being the time limit it already is. You get time added rightfully when you make a kill anyway when it's needed. [b]Minimum Turn Time[/b] 3 minutes is good minimum turn time- and what we already know. anything shorter, is only appealing to regular sametime players. (1-2 minutes would be fun, but not good for developing sametime growth). Would love to play it tho. [b]"Pointless" Sametime[/b] Since it's in beta, maybe these games should be 'pointless' no points/statistics?. Therefore there wouldn't be a need to warn players to play sametime at their own risk. Currently not many players realize that sametime is in Beta. Currently there is no warning, current status of glitches, etc. [b]Current Glitches[/b] Time added for the killer. Dunno what the best solution is for the time added after you make a kill. Only the killer can see the correct amount of time left, and also a spectator. The players in a game are stuck on 0:00 fog time. while the killer has the extra time (a way around this, is to refresh and see a quick glimpse of the time the killer has, or log out to view, or open up another browser to view the game as a spectator. It can also be solved by any player adding time, while there is normal time on the clock.. Either, it should be invisible to all (except the killer) or visible to all, and no tricks around it to view,..like the ones i mentioned. Last second attack. This doesn't happen as often as it use to, but if you attack right before the turn time runs out, you miss the next round. [b]Improvement request[/b]. An auto trade toggle. +cards first, wild cards last for save. The option to have it auto or manually. Manually you might still want to wait for a bigger trade. Trade shouldn't be a bad thing. Experienced same time player who know the dark tricks, will take advantage of a player, knowing that he will be slowed down from a trade prompt, trade in and race to kill a capital. Trades being the same value for that round in increasing games.,.. Players will wait, maybe add time or miss turn just to get the higher trade. Disabling add time might change the way it's currently played. But I think the suggestion by machavelli is a good one. The need to unlock sametime games, "pointless" or not. It's not a good thing for new players to play there first game in this mode. This has already been solved by Matty I think. ....

First off, It's good to know that the entire site and backend are being rewritten. So not changed a bit here and there, but completely redone. This means that all the current glitches or things are probably different in the rewrite. The way of querying is much less error prone, so all database timing issues should be solved and a lot of other things are changed as well. Also note that Cireon did most (well, pretty much all) game logic, so I don't know everything. Here some replies. [quote=Hoodlum - Dec 23, 05:39 AM]Will the toggle between gamechat, and gamelog still work as a refresh? Current test games played on beta site, I don't think it works the same.[/quote] Currently it doesn't do that - but what does it refresh when you toggle? The entire game state? Or only the timer? Because in the rewrite the timer is updated to the correct value every time the gamestate updates. [quote=Hoodlum - Dec 23, 05:39 AM][b]Add Time[/b] Disabling add time for Sametime (players turning the game into a consecutive one).[/quote] Disabling the add time button is easy, we can just do that. [quote=Hoodlum - Dec 23, 05:39 AM][b]Minimum Turn Time[/b] 3 minutes is good minimum turn time- and what we already know. anything shorter, is only appealing to regular sametime players. (1-2 minutes would be fun, but not good for developing sametime growth). Would love to play it tho.[/quote] I'm not altogether sure on having less than 3 min turns, so for now I'm going to skip that. [quote=Hoodlum - Dec 23, 05:39 AM][b]"Pointless" Sametime[/b] Since it's in beta, maybe these games should be 'pointless' no points/statistics?. Therefore there wouldn't be a need to warn players to play sametime at their own risk. Currently not many players realize that sametime is in Beta. Currently there is no warning, current status of glitches, etc.[/quote] 'pointless' games will be there eventually, but not right away. [quote=Hoodlum - Dec 23, 05:39 AM][b]Current Glitches[/b] Time added for the killer. ... Either, it should be invisible to all (except the killer) or visible to all, and no tricks around it to view,..like the ones i mentioned.[/quote] In then rewrite the timer should automatically show the correct time I believe. [quote=Hoodlum - Dec 23, 05:39 AM]Last second attack. This doesn't happen as often as it use to, but if you attack right before the turn time runs out, you miss the next round.[/quote] I think this one is fixed. [quote=Hoodlum - Dec 23, 05:39 AM][b]Improvement request[/b].[/quote] We're not adding new features right away now, although they are possible. Yes, same-time games have to be purchased for tokens before you can play them.

I would say that, having 1-2 minutes turn is not a good idea especially when you are playing a death match game instead of capital in same time. Towards the end of the game, in a death match, your opponent will not just sit there waiting for you to finish him/her off, they are going to run and break your region or so something, so you will need all of your 3 minutes and sometimes even more just so they will not trade and drag the game longer. Have to keep the time at 3 minute if add time will be disabled.

I recently discovered the hard way that there is a sneaky way to cheat in same-time games. Most of you are aware that during a same time game, if you are the last to end your turn during a round, you can not begin the next round unless you wait until half of the time of the next round has expired. This is a great feature that I support. However, if you are the last one to end the round, and you want to be the one to begin the next round, there is a sneaky way to do this. You simply choose not to end your turn. When the clock expires, you get a card (if you earned one) AND you are immediately allowed to start the new round. I don't play same-time a lot, and I feel that this technique is a way to circumvent the rule of not allowing the last player to start the next round. In my opinion, this needs to be fixed. If you want to earn a card and participate in the next round, you should be forced to end your turn properly. Also, once again, I'd like to refer you to a previous idea I had, and this is a good place to bring it up again: http://www.dominating12.com/forum/?cmd=topic&id=1376&board=20

Cheat is not the word to describe it. Vexer had fixed sametime so that ending turn was not required, as before, it produced a whole bunch of unpredictable glitches, like missing a whole turn, gaining a card instead, sometimes gaining two cards, which might seem cool, but it ain't compared to a whole round. It's more predictable now, and long term games are the same as live games. when the new round starts we all start at the SAME TIME. Yup, clarke and seguin too, learnt the hard way in long term games with me. So here is some strategic advice for long term games. If you are in a 2p game, or one of the last 2 remaining, don't end your turn, last, because...you give your opponent 11 hours and 59 seconds jump start on you. Game starts when another player presses starts or when half the turn time is over. So, while you are inactive in this 11 hour 59 second advantage, your opponent can break your bonus, can kill you before you get to fortify, can win the game while you sleep. BUT if you let the time run out, as in a LIVE game, you both start at the SAME TIME. key word, SAME TIME. If you snooze, you lose. It's fairer this way. You both KNOW when the game is going to start, just make the commitment to be there. Otherwise, sit and wait at your screen for potentially 11 hours and 59 seconds.

[quote=Matty - Dec 23, 10:38 AM] I'm not altogether sure on having less than 3 min turns, so for now I'm going to skip that. [/quote] I'm coming back to this after talking to a few more people. I agree with Hood that having shorter turns would make this more of an advanced game/would put new people off same time. But to be honest, that's already the case with most of the sametime games I see played (which is heavily baised data since I'm never online during Europe sleep hours): Hood's and SFH's sametime team caps, my sametime caps and Descarado's sametime games are hardly new people friendly. These account for a majority of sametime games with more than 2 players. 2 Player sametime games are also popular, and again rarely won by new people. I think anything other than 'classic' risk should require tokens to be purchased, so that new people aren't put off by 'weird' game mechanics. Rather than not implementing something which would make the game better for most experienced players because it would be off-putting to new people. The same argument could be used to disable sametime all together (or caps) and we don't want that. The people I speak to in sametime games with 2+ people all seem to be in favour of having shorter game times. None of us do anything for the first 2 minutes. I was recently told by a regular player that he doesn't like sametime games because they are too slow. This puzzled me, as I view sametime games as being much more happening than wait-for-hours ascending cap games this person plays. What he meant was that he didn't like having to wait around for 2 minutes every turn doing nothing (and also the add time thing, which makes it even slower). Same time games should be faster paced, by their nature. Removing add time and decreasing the turn time would ensure that to be the case. I'll see if I can persuade some of the many people who think the same way to pop in by the forums and say so!

Just to note that for the rewritten version of the website, add time has been disabled for same time games. Turn lengths cannot be shortened for the reasons outlined earlier. 3 minute turns are as short as we can make it for technical reasons as well, because even faster turns would probably put too much strain on the server.

[quote=Cireon - Jan 6, 02:33 PM]Just to note that for the rewritten version of the website, add time has been disabled for same time games.[/quote] Yay! :)