Are lifeinpixels and oliver cheaters?

Game 245897 http://www.dominating12.com/?cmd=game&sec=play&id=245897 This was a password protected game set by me, where I had invited only the people that I trusted. The situation was this: players: capitals: cards: Fendi 26 5 oliver 24 3 The_Bishop 30 4 lifeinpixels 25 3 [u]Oliver's turn.[/u] Nobody had turned in yet, since [b]the turn-in value was only 4[/b]. Everybody had free paths to strike the others. The_Bishop was owning a +2 region. Since what happened? Something magic! Oliver killed The_Bishop, and lifeinpixels killed Fendi. Gulp! Notice they were on-line at the same moment, coincidence! And I was on-line too, one more coincidence! So I had the honour to see all the action 'live'. If you want you can analyze better the situation to know how unfavourable both moves were. #1 - oliver killed my 30 troops in order to get a double turn-in of only 4+6=10 troops. Really smart! oliver had 24 troops in the Cap and 3 cards in hand before killing me, after killing me he only had 21 troops in cap and only 2 cards (including the 1 he gained at the end). He attacked me from 2 sides using 16 troops that he had bunched out of his Cap (next to mine!). If he would have moved all the troops on the Cap and avoided to do useless kills then he could have about 36 troops in cap (or almost, depending on the manoeuvre to join his forces) and 4 cards. Plus with that move he raised up the value of the cards held by his opponents. Not to mention what a great risk he ran! The final shot against The_Bishop's Cap was 17v14, the risk of a failure was concrete (27%) and nothing to gain in case of success. In case of a failure lifeinpixels would have won very easy having 2 unprotected caps to kill. But oliver's cap wasn't so unprotected after that crazy move, partially due to a bit of luck on dice, and 4 troops gained owning the territory on the cards, (both his own Cap and the territory which he sent the reinforcement from). But with a bit less of luck he would have had only 15 troops or something so and I would have consider it a complete suicide. He gained an advantage on reinforcement with that move but he blocked himself in. Plus it was not so hard for the 2 remaining players realize how to balance the game out reducing oliver reinforcements. That's why I thought: "Now, wanna see what happens! I cannot understand how oliver can think to win the game in such a way!" #2 - And here what happened. lifeinpixels killed the 26 troops in Fendi's Cap gaining a single turn-in of only 10 troops (he used the 8 troops turn-in at the beginning of his turn). Wow, another very smart move! lifeinpixels had 25 troops in the Cap and 3 cards in hand before killing Fendi, after killing Fendi he only had 17 troops in cap and only 3 cards (including the 1 he gained at the end). If he wanted he could stay with 28 troops and 4 cards (or 36 troops and 1 card). No gain from that move. He also ran a concrete risk because the final shot was 31v26 and he was very close to failure. Not to mention he completely blocked himself in and he has now to fight against an opponent with more troops in his cap, with a higher reinforcement and with a free path to reach him. Practically even with the success that he had on the kill, the chances of winning for lifeinpixels were very little. And also in this case no reason to risk. Even worse, he just killed the only player that could cooperate with him to reduce oliver bonuses. I accused him to suicide. ALL THE INFORMATION GIVEN HERE IS DEDUCIBLE BY CALCULATION FROM THE GAME LOG. Here is an image of the situation: [url=http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q700/Photo_Bishop/round6_00_zps3b80a71f.png]round 6, oliver to move[/url]. Just the best deduction I can do from the log. Notice Shajera conquered Ssizara but I don't know how many has been moved there, so they are marked with a sign for that. In the other cases the number of troops moved are deducible from the next recorded moves. 2 territories of mine and 2 of lifeinpixels are missing, they are among Solador, Velis, Western Algos, Eastern Algos, so they are double-colored. If you want a more complete history you can see it: - [url=http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q700/Photo_Bishop/round0_zps9d13f229.png]starting position[/url] - [url=http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q700/Photo_Bishop/round6_00_zps3b80a71f.png]round 6, oliver to move[/url] - [url=http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q700/Photo_Bishop/round6_01_zpse21a4059.png]round 6, oliver killed The_Bishop[/url] - [url=http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q700/Photo_Bishop/round6_02_zps9af5b217.png]round 6, lifeinpixels killed Fendi[/url]

But why only check the log? There are so many interesting details on the [b]chat thread[/b]! [spoiler][quote=Game 245897]26 Jan, 18:28 lifeinpixels: Am I the only one who thinks most caps games are boring? 26 Jan, 18:29 lifeinpixels: I mean, all you have to do is put 3 on your cap and make sure you get a card at the right time. The rest is luck. 26 Jan, 18:30 lifeinpixels: Even getting regions, Bishop was lucky to have a good start but for the rest of us, the effort to get a region is not worth it.[/quote] Strange sentences. How do you join a game and then you say it is boring? Just in the moment it was starting to be interesting. I couldn't understand why lifeinpixels wrote those sentences. By the way I was going to reply to him to explain why I consider cap games interesting and why the fact that I was owning a region really was only a little advantage. Just few hours after lifeinpixels's declarations, when I was starting to type my answer, the 'moovie' began! And I was watching it astonished. As I said they were both on the game at the same moment. And starting from now the game will go on like a live game. [quote=Game 245897]26 Jan, 21:46 oliver: well, life, im having fun... 26 Jan, 21:47 oliver: and you too ! 26 Jan, 21:48 lifeinpixels: ;) 26 Jan, 21:49 oliver: i have to study this... ;)[/quote] Notice what a happy feeling shines through those sentences. The 'hit' has been successful, the opponents have been killed, so now they can 'split the cake' in peace. Not to mention universal gestures of complicity! [b];)[/b] So finally I decided to explain something about capitals to lifeinpixels, I could not avoid to tell him how wrong his move was. [quote=Game 245897]26 Jan, 22:02 The_Bishop: Since I was supposed to have the advantage bcoz of my region 26 Jan, 22:02 The_Bishop: most important things are free paths and kill at the right moment 26 Jan, 22:04 The_Bishop: Pixels you just suicided blocking yourself in and killing Fendi in the worst moment[/quote] Lifeinpixels did not replied to my accusation. Strange because he was on-line, he was playing!! It seemed like he wanted to hide himself. But oliver replied. Wow what a teaming attitude, you accuse one and the other answers. In the following dialog between oliver and me he tries to explain why he killed me. [quote=Game 245897]26 Jan, 22:05 oliver: well, i attacked you (bishop) because he was trapped[/quote] Since the first explanation that oliver gives is that he killed me because lifeinpixels was trapped. (LOL!) Obviously it is not true, you can check the log. lifeinpixels actually started from his cap to go to kill Fendi's cap since he was not trapped. [quote=Game 245897]26 Jan, 22:07 oliver: kllling fendi, totally trapped 26 Jan, 22:08 The_Bishop: that's your dream 26 Jan, 22:08 The_Bishop: they both were open[/quote] It looked like oliver had some problem to recall the position. (Only few minutes later!) So there was a bit of misunderstanding between him and me. [quote=Game 245897]26 Jan, 22:09 oliver: lifes cap did not arrive mine[/quote] He insisted with this wrong concept, but finally I did understand what he meant: lifeinpixels would have been trapped after killing Fendi! What is mysterious is how can him imagine during his turn that lifeinpixels would have killed Fendi on the next turn... [quote=Game 245897]26 Jan, 22:10 The_Bishop: he could arrive but after killing fendi didn't arrive anymore[/quote] Really it is not true, lifeinpixels killing Fendi doesn't cause him to be trapped, he simply trapped himself by himself. But it happened so fast that I didn't realize it. [quote=Game 245897]26 Jan, 22:10 oliver: (his path was tooooo long for arriving me , killing fendi first..) 26 Jan, 22:11 oliver: that is, he had to kill fendi for arriving my cap 26 Jan, 22:11 oliver: or going through the red region at least, im not sure now[/quote] All these sentences are false. I don't think he wanted to lie. He simply wanted to give an explanation, but he wasn't able to recall the position. [u]How he planned his move if he did not study the position?[/u] I think lifeinpixels and oliver used a 'special strategy' that doesn't require to study the position so much. Also notice he didn't give any comment on Fendi's situation like he knew in advance that Fendi would have been killed soon, so that he had to fight against lifeinpixels only. [quote=Game 245897]26 Jan, 22:12 The_Bishop: yes I understand, but fendi could easely arrive to you, I personally provided to open her 26 Jan, 22:12 oliver: the fact is that i attacked because it wasnt probably life arrive with his cap, and fendi has a hard path. i put 21 on my cap after killing you 26 Jan, 22:13 oliver: so i try a new game , with similar troops in caps, but a good reinforces[/quote] Finally he gave a comment also on Fendi saying that she had a hard path. Once again false. But his best defense to justify his move was to say that he put 21 troops in his cap (really it was just a case) and he got a good reinforcement. But it wasn't so hard for the 2 remaining opponents to slow down his reinforcement. [quote=Game 245897]26 Jan, 22:13 The_Bishop: that's why I think Pixels had not to kill her 26 Jan, 22:13 oliver: yeah im agree with that 26 Jan, 22:14 oliver: it put the game "easy" for me 26 Jan, 22:15 The_Bishop: sure[/quote] Finally oliver agreed with me that lifeinpixels made the move that gave him the game: "it put the game "easy" for me". Really the only reason that his crazy move can be considered smart is if he knew in advance that lifeinpixels was going to do a move even more crazy. But how he could predict that one of his opponents was going to do a move that made the game easy for him? I reject the idea that oliver has a special ability to predict the future, since I assume oliver and lifeinpixels had an agreement. THAT'S CHEATING! [quote=Game 245897]26 Jan, 22:15 The_Bishop: by the way GG[/quote] Just a hilarious sentence.[/spoiler]

Plus, I want to share with everybody a couple of sentences from the highest rank of the site: [quote=Game 218082]26 Nov, 20:00 lifeinpixels: Honestly I think a good percentage of players below me are better than me.[/quote] I don't disagree with that declaration but I cannot understand lifeinpixels having such a high rank. [quote=Game 219930]6 Feb, 18:29 lifeinpixels: A huge part of becoming a good player here is not just strategy, but working well with other players. If you make friends, you'll have fewer enemies. A lot of players don't seem to understand this.[/quote] Wow, now we understand, thanks lifeinpixels! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- My dear D12 friends help me please to understand what happened in that game, I'm asking a popular vote: [size=14]- Vote A, if you think that lifeinpixels and oliver cheated; - Vote B, if you think that it was a normal game and The_Bishop is paranoid.[/size] Don't fear to call me paranoid, I am not worried on that. But please give a concrete and pertinent explanation for your vote. Clearly [b]my vote is A[/b]. Every comment is welcome. Thanks.

They don't sound like clever moves. Is the forum the place to name and shame? Is it accepted to make accusations against others in this forum? If so, perhaps I will contribute some of my own.

I vote C. There is no direct evidence of cheating, but they appear to have played together on this.

Pixels? Shameful!

Making accusations and writing in a public place such as this forum is not something that I encourage people to do.

People tend to observe rules they know will be enforced. Is the site doing enough to combat such individuals?

@Fendi - That's a forum: everybody can write what he thinks. If one makes an accusation, then the accused person is free to answer. Everything will be more clear. Plus Fendi you were in that game, your opinion would be welcome.

Sorry Bishop but I'm leaning towards B. May be Oliver's first attack was not the most tactful, especially the way I see how you and me play capital games but that was his move. Personally I like to clear the board on one round but I've seen people successfully trap themselves in their capital and still win because of the bonuses. Pixels move to kill off Fendi was probably more for the cards and have it duel it out with Oliver even if it means trapping himself in the process. As far as working together, the 30 plus games I've played with Oliver, pixels has only won once, and the 30 plus games I've played with Pixels, Oliver has only won once. As far as Pixel's comments: "26 Nov, 20:00 lifeinpixels: Honestly I think a good percentage of players below me are better than me." I see him being more humble here than anything. "6 Feb, 18:29 lifeinpixels: A huge part of becoming a good player here is not just strategy, but working well with other players. If you make friends, you'll have fewer enemies. A lot of players don't seem to understand this." I see this one as him being more clever on his approach to the game that if you don't make enemies, you have people have less vendetta against you and make it personal. I'm thinking close to half of the players on D12 have suicide move tendencies especially when they are new to the site or the game. And they are more apt to attack the ones that attacked them because they don't see it as a strategic move but as an aggressive move on them. In short, I think pixels has a "wolf in sheep's clothing" attitude in this one lol I do agree however with you Bishop in that Fendi's weight of opinion should count more not only cause she was part of the game but she knows all three of you well and your style of play.

I can only go on what I am seeing of the hand made recap's of the game and the game log, which without a rewind button, is very difficult to tell exactly what the troops positions were prior to each attack/move/reinforcement. This is where people who 'game fix' know how to exploit the current system. (This is also relevant) In Game 261164, I was BLATANTLY cheated in broad daylight by Simeon & zocpoc. There was 100% evidence that the game was fixed for zocpoc to win and yet, when questioned, they replied with lies, which even the game log can prove are lies and the staff believed them, BUT had 'sufficient' evidence to warrant returning the points. I was warned about these two and forewarned another player before the first turn who was amazed to see it happen for real! From this, I can say without doubt that, when two players decide they are going to 'carve up' the wins, if they are experienced enough, they will be able to ensure this, however, they will not always make it look convincing enough and there are times when even the most experienced players (prone to teaming for points) will make moves that would never ever happen at that level and so expose their teaming/friend assisting behaviour. Words that are then used to defer the blame, such as in your case "paranoid" & in my case "He must have lost Internet Connection", seem to raise 2 sides to the argument, which is what they are designed to do and force the staff to always give the benefit of the doubt they have now been forced to have, influencing their decision! Never underestimate the lengths People will go to, to gain total Dominance and the ultimate respect on this site. I don't think you should make people vote, I think you should ask for the Alleged Offenders to explain their actions and at that level, they should have a complete recall of their tactical thoughts and aims and why they thought their actions were game winning if playing without assistance!? Please bare this in mind.... If Oliver was not in communication with lifeinpixels, could he have made that move not knowing lifeinpixels was going to attack Fendi? Would Fendi have been in a position to kill Oliver/lifeinpixels? Why would lifeinpixels attack a player to go from 26 in Cap to 17 in Cap? Was it a game winning move due to Oliver blocking himself? Did Oliver still have enough reinforcements plus a possible high value turn in to attack and control lifeinpixels? Was Oliver's attack on The_Bishop of any strategic gain or the complete opposite? All these are important factors that each of these players would have accounted for and would influence their actions if playing alone without any knowledge of the other (enemy) player's intent! p.s. check their PM's all you like, there are over 10 other ways to communicate live, out of site of D12 that any Internet user knows of. p.p.s Sorry for the length of the post, but some things need a lot of words to explain.

Thanks 4zaviola for your comment. @nikeboix69. I cannot understand these: [quote=nikeboix69]I've seen people successfully trap themselves in their capital and still win because of the bonuses[/quote]I also sometimes trap myself and I go to win with bonuses but I never waste all my troops in that way, specially if the others are able to strike my cap. [quote=nikeboix69]Pixels move to kill off Fendi was probably more for the cards and have it duel it out with Oliver even if it means trapping himself in the process.[/quote]How can you think that lifeinpixels killed for cards when he lost 30 troops and only turned 10 in? Would be better to say that he decided to take an opponent off, but he made some miscalculation bcoz the other opponent said he 'put the game easy' for him. By the way thanks for your comment. Thanks tramadol for your accurate comment.

Hi i am bad at english.wow this is a big map,there are 42 territories,after defeat bishop,oliver would have 21territories and a region+2,oliver would get 9 man per turn,this were a big advantage at early game with trade card=8 at that time,so if fendi and lifepixel only try to get card oliver would win soon,oliver didn't think lifepixel can killl fendi to win ,i suppose lifepixel win by luck,luck dice,with 2 setin card lifepixel only receive 18 man,it is hard to win

I'm more curious how Fendi lost 17 points and you lost 15 points. She has WAY more points than you, I thought it would be different. Those guys aren't cheaters.

@tramadol, I have had the same experience with Simeon, although it was a different player who benefited. I am very suspicious about playing games with him when there are other players who speak his language. Someone who has no chance of winning usually ends up committing suicide on someone in a strong position, to the benefit of one of them.