2 player games

We all know that 2 player games are mostly luck. It doesn't seem right that a high ranked player should lose 40 points but only stand to gain 10. What if in all 2 player games you could only win or lose 10 points no matter how many points you and your opponent have? What do you think?

i will only play 1 vs 1 with basic players if i only lose 10 points, basic players don't play as well as me.

Thats pretty good idea. I love two player games but did not play for some time. Rank is not the main reason, but loosing that much rank that easy, will push most players from joining.

I dont like 2 player games just because they are luck I dont really care if I lose a few points...

I feel it's a good idea! It allows new players to met and learn from the more experienced players and gives them an opportunity to feel more of a part of the website!! It should also increase "live" games and limit how long people have to wait for someone to join their game!! If there's a downside to this plan, I'm not seeing it!!

maybe Vexer wanna farm on newbie, what if u don't lose or win anything on 2 players game.

I have given some thought to what thaithai has said. Now I think that it must still be the case that players who have more points will lose more points in 2p games. But the formula we have doesn't work very well for 2p games. If the top player on the site plays the worst player several 2p games he will probably win 2 out of 3 of them at least. The problem is that the top player would lose 35 points if he/she lost and the worst player would only lose 5 points. That means that if the top player loses one game to the worst player then he would have to win the next 7 games in a row to get his points back. I don't think it's feasible for any player to win 7 times in a row against any other player. To me it is obvious that our current formula doesn't work for 2p games. I agree with what leedog said about experienced players needing to play more 2p games and we definitely need more live games played. I remember with the old ranking system that 2p games got played all the time. So the formula needs to be different for 2p games but my brain is not really working this late at night so i can't seemed to come up with a formula that will do this. Keep in mind that the baseline is 20 points per game. If each player has the same amount of points then one of them will gain 20 points and the other will lose 20 points. I had previously said win 10 points or lose 10 points but this will upset players who play mostly 2p games so I think the (number of points gained by the winner + the number of points lost by the loser) divided by 2 needs to equal 20. This is the current formula: John 1000 points Bob 1500 points Billy 3000 points They play together and Bob wins: (1000+1500+3000 / 3 players) = 1833 average (rounded down) John loses 11 points (1000 john points / 1833 average)*20 Billy loses 33 points (3000 billy points / 1833 average)*20 Bob gains 44 points (11 john points + 33 billy points) The play together and Billy wins: (1000+1500+3000 / 3 players) = 1833 average John loses 11 points (1000 john points / 1833 average)*20 Bob loses 16 points (1500 bob points / 1833 average)*20 Billy gains 27 points ( 11 john points + 16 bob points) The formula needs to remain relative to the players current points but modified so that no one is winning more than 27 points and no one is losing less than 13. but we can't just have it so that the player with more points wins 13 and the player with less wins 27, it has to be relative to the point difference between the 2 players.

Two player games are fast and based too much on luck. I've made the best possible move every turn and still lost to someone that made 10 mistakes, just because they had better starting position. I've also made a few mistakes myself and came back from having only one army. I'd have to say maybe 5% of the games I won in 2p were determined by skill at all. First suggestion: No points for 2p games, or a "pointless" game option. Second suggestion: I have a much smaller math formula that I think may work. Take the current skill point gain / loss and divide it by 4. If someone would have lost 40 points, they only lose 10 instead. Unfortunately, if you would have only gained 8 points being a much higher ranked player, you would instead gain only 2. I wouldn't mind not gaining many points as 2p games should be played more for fun. If I lose a few games, I could more easily gain them back playing larger than 2p games. Third suggestion: 2p games are based far too much on luck. Have flat rate 2p game points. Winner gains 10 points and loser loses 10 points, regardless of who the opponent is or their skill points.

Since I am a player who plays alomst only 2p games I would also like to share my opinion. I have noticed one very signifcat thing as far as 2p games are concerned. The person who creates a game goes second in more or less 60-70% of games. I don't have to explain to you the importance of who goes first in 2p games. This is the MAIN problem of 2p games. A few months ago I did some math. It turned out that out of 65 games I had played with sekretar, he went first in more or less 65-70% of the games!!! (and I created VAST majority of those games). I doubt you will call it random Vexer. I tried to discuss this issue with 1771 but he told me there was nothing wrong with it. Later on, I demonstrated this "phenomenon" to Fendi. She said she could see there was something wrong with it and she mentioned she would discuss it with Vexer but so far I haven't had any news. A few days ago I played 6 or 7 games with Flynner13 within 24 hours and he/she went first in every single game (of course I created all the games). What's more, I think that some players are well aware of this fact. That's why some of us just sit and wait till somebody else creates a 2p game - then, if you join a game you greatly increase your chances of going first and, consequnetly, winning the game. There aren't too many players creating 2p games even though there are 10 or more people on the site. Have you noticed that? Actually, I am one of the very few people here that creates 2p games. As far as the points you might win or lose are concerned, I would like to say that I don't mind losing 35 points when there are only 5 to gain as long as I know that if I create a game I will go first in at least 45% of them. I believe that a person that creates a game should be privileged and they should go first in more than 50% of games.

Hi rafcio, I haven't had time to confirm your bug report but I was aware of it. You are not the only one who has noticed this. Now that the timer for live games has been fixed I will move this up on the priority list. Thank you.

Glanru/Rafico have a good point, 2 player games are really based on who goes first, how the board is set up and of course the luck of the dice!! Though, I've gone first plenty of times, had horrible dice and lost game! I've also played games where other player went first, was set up with full territory at beginning of game and wiped me out of an area before my turn even started... but that's how it goes and wouldn't even care if I was only losing 10 points!! Vex. you mentioned above how an experienced player could "farm" a new player for points... I don't think it would be that easy. If Thai played a new player and won 7 out of 10 games, at 10 points per win (10 points per loss), he would only gain 40 points (70-30=40) for about 3 hours of work! Would an experienced player really want to spend 3 hours just to have the chance to gain 40-50 points? I think the new formula should be seriuosly considered just to end people's hesitation of entering or starting a 2 player game!

wining a basic on 1vs1 is very easy although i don't play first.i am pleased if i gained 10 points per day . do u sure u can gain 300 points per month. i can't gain 300 points per month.do u sure your point is over 3600 after 1 year. i only play with basic on 1vs1 to gain 10 points per day. after about 6 month my rank would be general if i gain 10 points per day.i sure my points wouldn't decrease if i only farm a basic on 1vs1 .i can't get more points if i play with good players.now i lose a lot points but only get less points for a win. it is hard get more points. vexer's ideas help vexer and i up our rank fast, and i am not interested in game with u. i would be interested in points from a basic

well, it wasn't my idea actually. i overheard some players talking about it and thought we should have a discussion. It's not my intention to farm basics for points. ThaiThai is right you can still farm basics for 10 points a day if it's +10 or -10. You wouldn't have to play 3 hours worth. You just quit while you're ahead. My current thoughts are that we should still have a formula for 2p games and not have it be +10 or -10. But the formula should be a slightly modified version of the current points formula.. modified specifically for 2 player game keeping in mind that luck plays more of a role in 2p games. I have yet to come up with a new formula though.

If this is this hard ...why not let the players that really play 2player games come up with a fix...if they feel they need one or leave it alone...if they don't complain about points then don't worry about it! Fix the bugs on the games and do your other work for the site. % for who goes first should be fixed though...the points... bottom of the list! Just my thought...for what it is worth...not much! LOL!

i disagree with thorpe and point you back to leedog's first comments.