impossibility of progress in live games
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Blagoje_Jovovic wrote:
It is simply impossible to progress in the rank if you play live games, because on the basis of 10 games that you should have won, you actually lost, lost due to someone's suicide and someone else picked up honey, and you instead of those ten games have + 500, you actually have -350, that's a huge difference, and the suiciders only got one fair play point less. Most of the high-ranking players made their points and their rank in sametime games or farming with their partner noobs around. Now it's crystal clear to me why should only play long term games and why there are fewer and fewer people in live games.
ProblemChild96 wrote:
I couldnt disagree more, countless players have proved you wrong on this.
"Appear weak when you are strong and strong when you are weak" Sun Tzu - The Art of War
Blagoje_Jovovic wrote:
yes, I think slackbatter is one of the examples, maafi is another, Joeyseven of course, when I say that I mean a player who has no more than half 1 vs 1 games and team games, but that he is complete to play all the settings. others, more than half are team and 1 on 1 if they don’t play sametime.and the ones I mentioned above ,by looking at their statistics it is clear that they played long terms, point limited, and password.
and now since you disagree, please give me the arguments where they are and show me a player who got to the general playing live games.
Dima wrote:
There is a fundamental problem with live games: not enough people and the ones who are playing are mostly noobs who quit after 2nd round or suicide or we both just live in the different time zone. Anyway, i fed up with this. I play only long term.
Dima wrote:
Blagoje_Jovovic
yes, I think slackbatter is one of the examples, maafi is another, Joeyseven of course, when I say that I mean a player who has no more than half 1 vs 1 games and team games, but that he is complete to play all the settings. others, more than half are team and 1 on 1 if they don’t play sametime.and the ones I mentioned above ,by looking at their statistics it is clear that they played long terms, point limited, and password.
and now since you disagree, please give me the arguments where they are and show me a player who got to the general playing live games.

Yes, some people only play the same easy game settings all over.... not very interesting. But it could be just a preferwnce.
Blagoje_Jovovic wrote:
easy setings? deathmetch, domination, assasination, capitals, and all that mostly 7-8-9 player mod? did you mean that or what I say sametime and farming noobs in team games, when those players would have their ratings separated, they would have even 1000 if it had not been acquired as a team or 1 on 1 or sametime.I think it's undeserved to have the same rank with a slackbatter for example (I use him because I see him as one of the most successful and complete risk players), without having 1 game played with each other, but 1 vs 1, 70%, or sametime, and to call it a general, it's a bit funny, for a general you need to have a skill, It's not all in the rank, the statistics say a lot., but I'm just talking about what I see you agree with me, it's impossible to go a step further in live games. A lot of damage is done by beginners, many do it deliberately and consciously, can not to win, but choose the winner.in principle, we cannot change anything in that regard except to move on to the long term.The rules are there, I'm just wondering how many people will agree with me
ProblemChild96 wrote:
Your right Joeyseven is a prime example but feel free to ckeck my statistics as well, my best argument against you is the fact that a live game is every bit as winnable as a long term game. PLAY WELL AND WIN GAMES AND YOU WILL BUILD RANK wether your winning long term, short term, sametime, teams, or whatever your playing they all give and lose points JUST WIN, DONT LOSE!

Edit - also you should recheck Joeyseven statistics because he has a very limited amount of lf long term or password protected games, hes shown a recent interest in team games but he built his rank on 5p classic map live games.

I apologize if im being to stern but saying its simply impossible could influence people in a bad way when your experience could be opposite of someone else's because strategies differ.
"Appear weak when you are strong and strong when you are weak" Sun Tzu - The Art of War
Blagoje_Jovovic wrote:
imagine you play, and every other time someone commits suicide, JUST WIN? how? come play a little these days and you will see for yourself, if they only see your rank they will shoot you in the first round.I said that and only a few examples are on the list, I didn't notice that you are active in live games,maybe it was different at the time when you played, try these days you will see how it will be.
little is missing the impossible ,of course I didn’t mean in the literal sense that it was completely impossible.
But it’s definitely best to be premium and fit into the group.
Blagoje_Jovovic wrote:
that's the difference between competitors and people who play for fun. there aren't a lot of serious players in live games and that's it, competitors saw things a long time ago and they separated in long terms, I don't really know, just like that I see things that do not mean that they are actually like that, it is just my experience for this short time,that's why I made this thread to see the experiences of others, and to understand better if I don't understand now.
ProblemChild96 wrote:
A good player can win against good and bad opposition, murder suicides are a common but a good enough player learns playing opponents against eachother is more important than trying to be the strongest, the power hungry player typically gets attacked and pays the ultimate price and then they cry murder suicide simply because they weren't allowed to dominate. Bad plays happen and they often cause more bad play but NOBODY EVER WANTS TO TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILITY, ITS NEVER THEIR FAULT! completely ridiculous!
"Appear weak when you are strong and strong when you are weak" Sun Tzu - The Art of War
AlexCheckMate wrote:
Without wanting to turn this into a popularity contest, I guess I'm somewhat surprised that I didn't get mentioned specifically.

For a story concerning my rating development, read (a part of) this post: https://dominating12.com/forums/6/suggestions-feedback/3287/rating-disparity-ratio/post/59807#post-59807

Or, to make it easier, I'll copy paste a snippet as a spoiler:

How I obtained my rating (click to show)
/Climbed to ~6400 now

Perhaps another piece could be helpful: https://dominating12.com/forums/2/general-discussion/3246/dominating12-my-experiences/post/58232#post-58232

Another peak into what I was doing here (click to show)

Long story short: I'm not sure what you wish to convey in this thread - an impossibility to achieve high(er) rank from playing live games? I think it's quite possible to get a high rank from live games. However, the higher you get, the harder it gets too. Then it'll probably be simpler to switch over to a different strategy, if you wish to keep growing. However, why is there a need to keep growing? You're just here for your own amusement? So just do whatever you like and don't bother too much about rank & rating?

If you wish to re-invent the rating system because it doesn't feel fair to you, I suggest you come up with an/some ideas and post them here on the forum. The staff on this website seems quite openminded and if the suggestion seems sensible and is doable, I'm sure they'll look into it. :)

My stats put me on 670 games thus far, of which <200 1v1 (I suppose the last 50? are just from playing with new players - to give back to the community; try to get them eased into the game/website. A win vs a new player gets very few pts (example: https://dominating12.com/game/913581 ), whereas a loss can be quite painful). And below <150 team games (quite some come from the team game tournaments: https://dominating12.com/tournament/114 & https://dominating12.com/tournament/76 ). The 250 password protected games are for a large portion within these tournaments, the 1v1 and teams. Also, I'm at a complete even split for LT/live (370 & 369) right now, but it's of course fair to say that >80% of my live games have been played while I was <4000 rating.

Lastly, I think you shouldn't underestimate the strain which a live game puts on someone. It's a commitment you make to stay active for an hour (or (much) longer - especially with more players and/or fog/capped cards). I believe this is the main reason for most players to slide away from live games. When they wish to play games with >5 players, it's just much more easy/convenient to play those in a 24h setting. I would dare say that >50% of all live games played on this website are 1v1 (I haven't gathered any stats on this though; it's just an assumption).

My 2 cents on this topic.

-Alex
“Gravitation cannot be held responsible for people falling in love. How on earth can you explain in terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as first love? Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.”

― Albert Einstein
Blagoje_Jovovic wrote:
Thank you guys for the shared experience, I am very grateful for that and I think I learned something :thumbs: