Time for exposure

Having been here years, I have seen it all.

I stopped playing live games, due to the new low abilities and understanding of the game by regular players and the refusal or inability to learn how to play without suiciding the game to someone else at my expense, because they were hoping for a lucky 2 sets from 6 cards, all this sort of crazy low standard play when having played many more games than me and also a lot of the other "experienced" players.

I just played my first live game in a long time and guess what.... redjeepie (played 1254 games to my 1147) attacked in hope, even got the lucky 2 sets from 6 cards and was still too short on troops to defend his cap. Blackshirts then attacked him in hope of 2 sets from 6 and got 1 set and Smoov got the easy win.
http://www.dominating12.com/index.php?cmd=game&sec=play&id=468538

When I pointed out the error in play, I heard the usual from the guy who's actions and low abilities caused the ruined game... "Stop Crying", "You had no chance anyway".

It is time to name and shame players that really aren't improving in any way and can't see any error in their play.

When we have the ability for a training area or training map, these players should voluntarily join to improve their game so as not to be constantly avoided and not have to name call to compensate for their inabilities.

Place all the games here with printed names of the guys who's play needs rethinking.

I don't think naming and shaming adds anything to the site, everyone has their own 'black book' of who they don't like to play with but it wont add anything to the community here to call out people. 

Knowing how certain players play and working around their individual styles can be fun if not frustrating challenge.

He is right.

In the last 20 games or so, like 3 of them ended without a failing attack. In all others someone went for the kill, failed in doing so, and gave an easy win to the next in line.

Agreed, most of them were capital games, and test games, but still.


This is the reason why I only play with a few players that I know well, that I know won't suicide because "otherwise someone else will go for it, so I can just as well try".
I made a topic about it a while ago, but it didn't really help.
Even the guys with a high ranking don't do this anymore.

I guess that's the Nash equilibrium then.

I know these things are disappointing, but unfortunately they happens often.

I think it's good to expose this kind of players in the forum, so everybody know what players we can trust and which not.

How about this case

Capital game

Card turn in now is 50

Player A has 100 in his capital plus 40 bonus each turn (after cleaning some players). He has 3 cards

Player B has 60 with 3 cards

Player C has 55 with 3 cards

Now it is Player B turn (next will be Player C then Player A)

So what will you do if you are Player B, aeronautic

First of all, is this a made up example?
If not, where is the game link?
This looks like a calculated perfect extreme situation, but you will be well aware that, the people who do these attacks aren't usually in this sort of situation or in any immediate danger, they simply play without thought to the outcome.

What map would this be on for a player to receive a 40 bonus?
How many troops & territories are between player A, B & C's Capitals?
Does player B have a wild card or a set from 3?
What troop bonus are players B & C due to receive?
Have players A, B or C blocked any of their own routes to other Cap's?
Will taking a particular Cap stop a follow through due to own troop blocks?
Are there any quantities of troops for player B or C near player A's Cap?
Are there any large quantities of troops off Cap (the capitals seem quite low on fortification at such a high turn in value)?

It appears to me that you are making an example to prove that it is correct to take a chance in the hope of getting 2 sets from 6 cards or lose guaranteed!

There are other things that can also happen that the example has not accounted for, beside all the other factors listed in questions above.
Show me a true map with this situation and it would be easy to make a game plan or accept your fate and not give an easy win to a particular player, which in most cases never enters the mind of the novice. Play to win, but if you can't win, don't play to take others down with you, your honour and reputation will go with you!

Play to win.

I like peanut butter.

Two undeniable truths.

Crunchy or smooth?

It is a real example, aeronautic
http://www.dominating12.com//index.php?cmd=game&sec=play&id=465784

I simplified it for forum discussion

There are 4 players left but nefarious (Green) has no chance to win the game

I am (123playcard) is Player B with 3 card and about 54 troops

Momagajic is Player C with 3 card and about 48 troops

andymech is Player A with 115 troops (and 40+ bonus)

It is my turn (Player and Player C is within my reach

My options:

A. Get one card to have 4 cards and see Player A win the game comfortably or see Player C going for me with slim chance

B. Don't get a card and Player A win the game comfortably

C. Attack Player C and hope for 2 sets from 6 cards

For my best interest I choose C.

What will you do if you are Player B ?

@123playcard: have you read this topic: http://www.dominating12.com/forum/?cmd=topic&id=1379 ???

Because you should never ruin a game 'just because it is your best shot'. Now I don't know your particular game, so I can't say whether or not you were right or wrong. I do know that moma is one of those players that suicides himself for try at luck quite often, so he has no rights to complain.
Still, read that topic and you'll know yourself when to go and when not to.

I am new to the site, joined about a month ago, and I dare say I am a clean book when I join the game. I know almost nothing about the game. Everything I know about the game is from playing extensively here.
(Just started my 300th game)

It is really heartbreaking to see someone naming and shaming another player in the forum just because they make a move which is seen not up to your standard level of play. It might not be the most reasonable move in your book but everyone is just playing their game which is obviously different from your game.

In the short time here, I played many games and learned a lot about the game, I also get scolded a lot, being told that I make a bad move a lot, witnessed many crazy revenges, accused for teaming and cried once. I am against naming and shaming another player just because they made a bad move, however I truly appreciate it if you can tell me about it nicely. I understand that you might feel upset that someone ruined your game, but the only way to make someone understand that they need to improve their overall game play is to educate them nicely. I don't see how naming and shaming them is going to tell them improve. It will only provokes them to ruin your game again if say you are going to play with said player.

People play here for many reason, some might just want to have some fun, some might want to improve their skills, some want the challenge and some people just need something to do during their spare time. And given that everyone has their own ego, it is not easy to admit their mistake and they will be very defensive when said mistake is pointed out, hence they need to find a way to justify their mistake; putting the blame on other uncontrollable elements like the dice and the cards. 

From a psychology perspective, he is playing to win (in his mindset), therefore he needs to make a move and make certain assumption,
turn in - kill - 6 cards - turn in - extra turn in - kill again or fortified
that makes perfectly logical sense from his point of view. The loop hole is the extra turn in he may or may not get that did not come across his mind. I understand from your point of view, you were utterly shocked because you didn't see that coming. Nobody come to play a game and expect themselves to lost, they need to make a move they think is the best, which is obviously a different move form what you have planned.

Most of the time people make unfair assumption about the cards to their favour, because they need to foresee themselves winning to make the action for said move. When said move failed, they know they are not going to win win and feel rather disappointed already, plus the anger from the player that was killed for no better purpose, the emotions are complicated. They are not going to admit their mistake right away(just like anyone else), so the easiest thing they can do it to put the blame on other factors.
Just like how you despised every other amateur players because you played with some suicider.

I believe that what you told them like "Don't expect to have 2 turn ins with 6 cards" will definitely be remembered just that sometimes it is hard to swallow their ego. I would say that the 2nd player just follow suits to put the blame on something else because he also failed.
Well, I have read the post about people not having 2 turn ins with 7 cards, it is not easy for someone to admit their mistake immediately, but maybe they will ponder about that someday and play a better game.

Just for one bad move in one bad game doesn't mean he/she is not a player in his/her other games. So, don't need to judge someone based on one move in one single game. (like how the forum never have a place for player that played a good game but one just to name and shame player)

As for elite player like yourself, I believe there is a better way for you to help everyone understands how to play the game better.

 ps: I would definitely voluntarily join a training map too, if I know how to join one. It will be an amazing learning experience for me to play with the experts.

Just my two cents.

I would agree with you.


Although I do hope that you can also understand how annoying it is if this one person keeps making suicidal moves for the last 20 games already, especially when you have only played these 20 games in a while.
It gets tiresome to keep explaining nicely and politely to someone that the move wasn't really good if he keeps shouting back that he was right and that you are a fool and know nothing and only care about probabilities and don't dare to take a risk.

I can hardly play capital games anymore without a suicide. Sometimes I end my turn and I know that either this player or that player will try to kill that other player, and he will fail, and then the next player will win. I predicted it, and it happened. I knew it was a bad move, either terrible luck or a ruined game. And it happens over and over again.
And no use telling them to stop, because "otherwise I wouldn't have won either way, so I could just as well try".

Cause that's what lots of players do unfortunately.

Sorry it is so long, but it is all factual and maybe educational in places:

@supiachao You sound like a genuine player. Your comments are very considerate to the needs of certain players, however, there are a few facts that you haven't taken into account and overlooked in my first post.

I am not elite or even an expert, but I know how to count and I know when I attack whether or not I will be able to continue to run the board or stop and successfully defend my Capital. I also know when I can't possibly win, but still don't ruin the game for the rightful winner, so I sit and take my defeat gracefully.

redjeepie, is not hearing this for the 1st time or even the 10th time, he is a player who persistently does this type of play and also 'name calls' anybody that tries to tell him anything.

I have trained players, advised players, given many hours of Private Message feedback on why the moves / actions were bad for the game and for a players improvement and understanding. I have done more than my fair share of trying to "educate" players that can't see the error of their ways and have had some success and after doing this hundreds of times, I got to know which players are receptive to the help and which are not.

redjeepie GOT the lucky 2 sets from 6..... but never calculated what troops he would have left to defend with even with the 2 sets turned in, aslo didn't calculate that there were not enough cards for him to kill any other player and was a prime target for the next player who was now compelled to kill him or the last player would win regardless of his actions. If he had waited 1 more round he could have legitimately attacked with certainty running the whole board and winning and he had too many troops before the attack for anybody to attack him and run the board... now the fact that he might have been worried that other players might have his way of thinking and attack him and hope for good dice, might have caused his premature attack or he might have been scared that I might have had a set from 3 cards (which I did), meaning his logic that "I couldn't win anyway" was flawed, but either way, his actions were what caused the game to be a guaranteed 100% chance of him losing as well as me of course!

The whole situation was caused by the method of play from redjeepie, who should have known exactly what he was doing, because he has played more games than me. Unfortunately, what he was doing was what a lot of players do... attack who they want, when they want and never mind the outcome.

Those that have been here many years have said time and time again, the mentality is "play, attack, lose, repeat". No improvement ever comes to these types of players, that's why after 1254 games and in some cases over 2000 games, there has never been any significant rise in rank or points.

*Note a lot of players who don't take on rank, do it because they either only want to play for fun and in my opinion should not be embroiled in the games that aren't just for fun, are too embarrassed to show that they are still extremely low ranked after many 1000's of games, or don't want others to know how truly formidable they are (rarely).

Some players have actually honed their skills at this game and are able to win games from a multitude of strategies from predetermined advantage points to diplomacy in the chat, to name but one, Matty. He is amongst the best strategic minds on the site, if you are ever lucky enough to be invited to a game with him in, you will be trying to fathom where all his advantage is coming from, sometimes you will think you've missed a turn or something. This is how good some of these players are, they don't just know how best to conserve troops and still gain vantage positions, they know how and when to reduce their enemy's troop numbers, create choke points, stop you getting an essential card.... you name it, they think of everything... sometimes for up to an hour before taking their turn in a Long Term game. This is how serious some people take this game.

This is why some people believe there is a divide or elitism on this site, there isn't, there are just some players who want to play with similarly skilled opponents in order to put their own skills to the ultimate test. The same could be said for the low skilled players or those that just want to play for fun and don't care for strategy and if this is their chosen path then they should definitely welcome the future "play for fun" system that will be available. But the sad fact is, some players genuinely believe they are brilliant players and that everything that goes wrong is just bad luck, not something they did.

Let me finish by saying, redjeepie is only mentioned here because he is a player of this type that was the reason I stopped playing live games because of. This was my first live game in months and because instead of asking, "why was that a bad move" he responded with name calling and assumption, refusing to acknowledge any error in his play. There are many players I should have posted here a long time ago, but some are banned or have left now... there will be more, when other serious players like myself are on the receiving end of this type of play!

At the very least, a forum like this does draw attention to the problem of repeated bad strategy by the same player to the detriment of everyone who wants to play a good and fair game.

The subject matter should be explained, as it has, and should only serve to improve the game, which I believe drawing attention to bad play achieves that goal by discouraging it.

For whatever reason you are playing such as to improve your skill as a serious player or just to have fun, you should always play to win.

I understand the frustration and the annoyance that you get when a player repeatedly make the same mistake over and over again. I might just avoid playing with said player in the future.

Most of us don't play with a calculator and not a mathematician, and most player here play with their guts feeling instead of their logical brain. That being said they are not going to reflect on their game plan but continue blaming on other factors.

I will definitely support a 'play for fun' system, but isn't the live game sort of a play for fun field? It is like opening a Christmas present, you'll never know if it is a something you have been wishing for or just something punny. (not the best comparison but you get what I mean) Sometimes you will find some really good players that you never play with before and sometimes you will face some suicidal player but I believe the best one is to see someone improves their game play over time.

For a newbie like me it is easier for me to change my perception about the game, admit my mistake and improve from there but some players here have been playing this game for years maybe even decades so it is much harder for them to accept another way of playing and to think that is a better way that what they believed. The changes or improvement will be much harder, maybe if they keep facing the same problem over and over again one day they might reconsider if they need a better game plan.

If you think they are not going to change, best option will be avoid playing with them again and not shaming them.

PS: Everybody tends to name people when they are upset, so have a bigger heart; forgive and forget.