Chatbans - deconstructed

I'd like to see a new form of chatbans. Currently, when someone gets chatbanned, they lose their right to chat in the Game chat AND the Team chat (and in the Live chat? I actually don't know?). I can fully fathom why they should no longer be allowed to chat in the Game chat (& the Live chat), but I believe that the Team chat should not be impacted by chatbans. For 1) as this would also impact potential teammates and for 2) that it is unlikely that the perpetrators are actually harassing their team members. I believe a chatban is there for the sole purpose to protect (innocent) bystanders from bad language/harassment and as a beneficial side effect disciplines a perpetrator which might decrease their likelihood for recidivism after a chatban is lifted again. Would be nice to see some more opinions on this matter. -Alex

I would agree. Does chat ban also ban messages? If it doesn't, that is how you can get around it in team games, but it isn't as efficient.

[quote=dough_boy]I would agree. Does chat ban also ban messages? If it doesn't, that is how you can get around it in team games, but it isn't as efficient.[/quote] You're correct; I forgot to mention it also blocks messages. I'm not entirely sure whether I think they should get turned off too - maybe in 2 phases? First phase just the chat; then if he keeps violating, block messages too?

We use increasing levels of chat bans with the hope that it’s an effective way of encouraging players to follow the site’s rules. We want it to be unambiguous because it’s easier to communicate what the impact of breaking the rules is. And our rules regarding rude and abusive language cover the whole site not just the public areas. Also, I think you’ve overlooked that it’s possible to join team games with randomly assigned team-mates.

[quote=maafi]We use increasing levels of chat bans with the hope that it’s an effective way of encouraging players to follow the site’s rules. We want it to be unambiguous because it’s easier to communicate what the impact of breaking the rules is. And our rules regarding rude and abusive language cover the whole site not just the public areas. Also, I think you’ve overlooked that it’s possible to join team games with randomly assigned team-mates. [/quote] I like the idea of "increasing levels" - start with a lenient one and become more strict when the offender continues to stray of the righteous path (the offender 'shows' that s/he didn't understand the lesson that was meant to be learnt and needs more incentive). This is in line with starting with a chatban that does not involve a ban on teamchat, right? I have indeed overlooked the possibility of joining team games with random players. However, when I think about it, I think it remains unlikely that someone would harass their teammate/s? If they wanted to harrass... their "best" course of action could actually be to just resign/attack their team mate/s? - gives a rather good 'chance' on losing the game? and therewith bugging the teammate/s most? I don't think there will be a lot of offensive language in team chat? And if there actually is... then indeed up the level of the ban at that point to also include team chat? - I see no issue here. Perhaps even look at it this way. There were the crime is committed, the ban gets placed. If in the live chat => disallow that If it's in the game chat => disallow that (and possibly live chat too, as that's a lower level?). If in the team chat => disallow that (and possibly live & game chat too, as they're lower levels?). Messages/forum treated separately too? I don't think it would become (very) ambiguous if a chatban was split up. I do however see a lot of potential gain from the change => team games not impacted (team mates, as well as opponents who're looking for a good game and opponents in a multi team settings).

I am not completely familiar with the methodology behind chat bans - I thought they were progressive in nature already... I agree that chat bans should not include team chat except for in extreme cases, since this also punishes rule-abiding players who now cannot discuss their strategy with their team mate. [quote=AlexCheckMate]Perhaps even look at it this way. There were the crime is committed, the ban gets placed. If in the live chat => disallow that If it's in the game chat => disallow that (and possibly live chat too, as that's a lower level?). If in the team chat => disallow that (and possibly live & game chat too, as they're lower levels?). Messages/forum treated separately too?[/quote] I think the way bans currently work is fine, it just needs editing so that Team Chat is not banned unless specifically chosen by the admin. I think someone who abuses chat in forums or in the live game lobby is relatively likely to abuse chat in live games. So I think the current split between Chat and Communication bans is adequate (but that team chat should remain unbanned by default).

I think chat ban shouldn't affect the ability to just play and teammates need to talk... But I also think that chat banned players have been reprimanded several times and then temporary chat banned and then, after repeating the violations, finally chat banned for good. I mean we know they are repeat offenders. If you give them the ability to chat, wherever it is, they'll repeat the violations for sure. In practice it would be just time lost. The problem imo is that is sad when one joins a team game and then he realizes his teammate cannot talk with him. I don't know what the right solution might be though.

From what I've gathered (it's not first hand information - can't vouch for it), a chatban isn't always preceded by a/several warning(s). I too thought this was the case though and IF it's indeed not the case, I would be in favour of a change of the system there. This would seem as natural progression with respect to handing out punishments in increasing levels for repeat offenders. [spoiler=An option for increasing levels of punishment & for noticing chat bans on others:] Put it as a spoiler here, it's just of the top of my head and maybe all of this already exists (in some form), or I'll make a new thread? dunno yet. 1) inbox with a warning 2) chat / fair play point(s) deducted (whatever makes sense with respect to the crime) 3) short temporary chat / multiplayer ban handed out (some days / a week? - restricted to communicate in the live / game chat? (not team chat, yet) - forum? and/or only allowed to play 2p games) 4) long term bans (1 week - 1 month?) 5) semi permanent ban (anywhere from >1 month to just under forever) 6) permanent ban Obviously, I realise these would just be guidelines and crew remains with full discretion in doing whatever they seem fit - this would e.g. just make it easier for 1 of the crew to handle something when another of the crew is unable to proceed with whatever s/he started. And if/when new people join the staff, they have an idea of how to start out with things. And of course, for the players on the website to have a slightly more detailed view on how punishments are linked to crimes. Also, perhaps include a 4th statistic for everyone to see? 1) Fair play 2) Chat 3) Attendence 4) ..... status? this might say smth like....... serving a chatban till 1st of July 2020? (and if the staff sees reason to change this, it can of course be reduced for good behaviour, or extended for bad things) - also mention what type of chat ban (team chat included)? or, if this feels like too private.... maybe just have a red/green flag as #4, with green meaning all good and red meaning (team) chat banned (as the latter is something that's useful for other players to know (people can also fake being chat banned, by simply using preset chat eventhough they actually can speak - some weird tactic, maybe?) maybe include an option when creating games to disallow players who've been flagged for something? e.g. if one were to create a team game, they could disallow team chat banned people to join. If someone gets naughty and gets team chat banned while in a team game already..... I've got no good idea for right now..... (possibly; the team mate can notify staff of this, then the offender could get his team chat restored, yet be disallowed to join new team games - then when that/those game/s s/he was in end, the team chat ban comes back into effect?) Also, yes, this page was read before writing here: https://dominating12.com/tutorial/rules [/spoiler] As time progresses, it becomes more obvious that this suggestion of mine is harder than I first anticipated on first sight. There's of course less incentive to make changes that sort of 'cater criminals', while there's still a waiting list for other things that could be done.... That said, I remain with the idea that there should be some way to not directly get all communication (except for preset messages in games) cut, when a chat ban is handed out, to allow for team games to be hit less hard when a player of such a team game gets involved in the aforementioned punishment.

Maybe players with chat bans should be unable to join team games - sounds harsh but it removes the problem of others being punished for their misbehaviour. Or, as I said before: [quote=Virtuosity98]I think the way bans currently work is fine, it just needs editing so that Team Chat is not banned unless specifically chosen by the admin.[/quote] Either of these would solve the problem.

Chat bans and reasons for placing them vary too much to have an absolute established set of parameters for how discipline is implemented. Frequency of violations is a factor. Severity is a factor. Intent and use is a factor. History is a factor. Get the idea? Sometimes it is a multiple minor transgressions that eventually turn into a permanently ban and sometimes a player is completely out of line and needs to be completely shut down without a series of warnings. And sometimes a player just refuses to think the rules should apply to them and in so doing or saying as much, we just leave a ban in place to save ourselves work later and save other members from being subject to something we know will happen again. I personally don't want to go out of my way to make it easier to help people who are a problem and have diverted my time away from doing positive things. There is a difference between someone who might be new and responds to a temporary chat ban with something like 'sorry, I didn't know you couldn't swear. I won't do it again and some who thinks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0-KZS1dDyw Honestly, Virt's idea is the best one even though it might seem the harshest. Don't join a team game if you can't use the chat but really. let's be honest. There are so many different ways of communicating online without the need to use our chat features that I don't think a lot of time needs to be spent trying to figure out how to make it easier to play for someone who has made things more difficult for others and that includes all parties involved, not just the staff in dealing with it but the other site members who are subject to inappropriate chat behavior in the first place.

It would make things easier knowing in advance that a player is chat banned by having a notice placed on their profile?

Having said that, if a player feels offended by someone's chat, would it not be simpler to have a mute player button/choice available instead of reporting it? Tugging on the sleeves of an administrator like a little child every time someone feels insulted in chat is a waste of their time. Maybe having multiple players reporting someone for offensive chat merits an administrator looking into a ban?

Introduce different levels of chat bans that the admins can select from in a dropdown menu: 1) Chat ban that includes game chat + live chat. • Temporary • Permanent 2) Chat ban that includes game chat + live chat + private messages. • Temporary • Permanent 3) Chat ban that includes game chat + live chat + private messages + forum. • Temporary • Permanent 4) Chat ban that includes game chat + live chat + team chat + team notes. • Temporary • Permanent 5) Chat ban that includes game chat + live chat + team chat + team notes + private messages. • Temporary • Permanent 6) Chat ban that includes game chat + live chat + team chat + team notes + private messages + forum. • Temporary • Permanent Nota Bene: The duration of a temporary chat ban being 1-3 months depending on the situation.