It's crucial
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Vexer wrote:
1 card at the beginning of the game is worth on average only two troops on your first turn in. So why do I see new player after new player losing 6-12 troops on their first turn trying so desperately to get a card? In fact, you could miss getting your first 3 cards and only be behind about 6 or 8 troops. So if it costs more troops than that to get the cards then it's not worth it. You'd be better off just placing and ending turn.

Most of the time I never try to get a card on the first turn--too many threes everywhere. But by the second round there are usually some easy ones. But sometimes I do want to get a card on the first turn anyway because I like the card turn in order that it would produce if everyone holds until they have 5 cards. So I might place 3 on 3 and attack a 3 hoping to get lucky. But if I lose 2 on the first attack I always stop. Always! Because what happens if you try again? You might lose another 2. Now you have lost 4 troops for something that is only worth 2. And beyond that you have weakened a territory that you probably really wanted to keep. The next player will see your 2 as an easier target and take the territory. Now you have lost 6 troops in the first round for a card that is only worth 2 troops.

In summary, most of the time only place and fortify on the first turn, don't attack.
Vexer wrote:
I probably should have written it down last time I checked but I think it's like 1 for every 20 territories. But what does that have to do with the first turn of the game?
elysium5 wrote:
Great advice on the first turn Vexer. The temptation to get that card not only costs the person trying to get it, but also throws the game into a serious imbalance for the other players right from the get go and makes for a really lopsided game for the remaining players.
It's like gambling somehow. You go out for a night of drinking and you don't know where your going to end up the next day. It could work out good or it could be disastrous. It's like the throw of the dice.

Jim Morrison

Leedog wrote:
@Vexer, the discussion of cards made me come up with question. Thanks for answer.
TheChymera wrote:
@Vexer, I think how much a card is worth is not trivial to estimate. It certainly isn't worth just 2 troops. Depending on the card turn in regimen and the odds that players wait until the first one has to turn in, the card may even have a negative net value. Why did you assume it would be worth 2 troops?
Vexer wrote:
Well I made a lot of assumptions to arrive at that number and I made an estimation using quick math because really it's too complex of problem since you don't know if the other players are going to get cards or not.

So I assumed a 4 player increasing card game where everybody gets a card every turn. The first 4 sets are 4, 6, 8, and 10. Not knowing the turn order I just took an average to determine the value of the cards you would have, which is 7 and 7 divided by 3 is 2.33. In reality it should be a bit higher because of the chance that you own the card and get a +2 bonus. I rounded down to emphasize my point, however. Each card in the first round of turn ins could be worth anywhere from 1.33 to 5.33 troops. But most likely each will be worth 2-3 troops.

I'm sure that a math wizard such as yourself could find precise probabilities for every situation but I think close approximations are good enough in this case.

The moral of the story is what is important. In most cases you shouldn't spend more troops getting cards than the cards are worth. It's better to not get cards on the first 3 turns than to lose 10 troops for a turn in worth 6.
vladtepes wrote:
Player-2 at the beginning of round 2
player-2 goes for a suicide kill on player-1

 The problem is... When you do things like that, Everyone in the game is affected. you ruined the game with what you did. you don't even Understand Why, what you did was... SO Wrong!

I was even telling you what you should do, when you went for a kill that would have never happened! And you knew it.

  Blue had just fortified and then there was a path to get to your men. you had to leave your capital, connect the dots of as many 3 terr as you could, then end the turn, and put them all back in your cap and hope for the best. you have to move in the terr with 3's on each. 

you don't plow through players [you went through 6 of my men] and waist all your troops. you went too far! then after that, you just left your capital open. you would have been better off just putting your 6 men in your capital and ending turn.

  if you had Better skills you would have found a way to put in your capital MORE then just the 6 or 7 troops you get for deployment. you had 5-7 terr around your capital with 3 troops on them. even if you got 4 more from 3(3) spots = 6 (2 from each) but you had to attack 2 blue spots to get to them. giving you 6-2=4 extra + 6-7 that is 10 on your 15 against his 19+6 that is 25 vs 25 and there was a way you could have gotten way more then that.

the next player who happened to have their turn after yours. Whoever it was, MISSED their chance to kill you. so i did it, i won the game because of that, but i could have very easily have lost because you don't kill people so early on in the game. INCLUDING YOURSELF! do you understand? After i killed you i became a target. right after the kill i had cards and territories and a low capital. you want to wait to kill someone when you get a large enough trade with their cards and yours to strengthen your capital again or kill someone else with cards to strengthen or kill.
Vexer wrote:
that seems a bit off topic why did you post it in this thread?
JCUK wrote:
I'm so glad someone posted this. I have been in so many games where people complain about bad dice. They are chasing cards with not the best odds and desemate all thier troops chasing cards. Round 2 is pretty much down hill from there when they attack anything with anything to catch up.
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