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scaldwell17 wrote:
So the pattern I've seen with same time games is there's often a single player who plays a lot, who is quickly able to take over, especially in a capitals setup. I'll admit, it does feel a little cheap, though I know nothing wrong is going on. Network glitches and refresh time are also a problem, though that's not something for the strategy forum. My question is: how to manage a same time game, or is it best avoided?
tontot wrote:
The best way is to play with good players to learn (or watch they play if you do not want to lose points. If you can guess what they will do, you already learn something).

Here are the players that usually play Same Time (and good at it)
Captain sekretar
Captain drma
1st Lieutenant Spartakus (he will play at about 3PM-5PM EST US time. Europe Map)
2nd Lieutenant nikola993
Warrant Officer Kaeptn

suldam wrote:
it is a little late (5 months down the road), but you shouldn't avoid same time games. play more of it and you will get better.

if you are generally a good strategist (ie a good player), you would enjoy same time because this setting allows you to fully exploit other players' weakness and mistakes. unlike the normal setting (ie consecutive), when a player makes a mistake (especially a major one) the player that moves subsequently would likely take advantage of the situation, which in my opinion isn't fair (in real life, anyone would have been to do that, so it should be the same in this game as well). i have played my share of deathmatches and capitals games in consecutive mode, and i many a time because of a miscalculated decision by a player, the following player in the turn order grabs the opportunity and sails to victory.

i believe your worries about glitches might be overblown. having been in quite a number of same time games, the glitches are pretty consistent -

1. attacking when the times resets (0:01 to a new round) - the system will end your turn (for the preceding round) and skip your next round. eg when attacking at the end of Round 7 and the timer resets, system would end your attack and skip your Round 8

2. getting extra troops - when a player attacks a territory but haven't occupied it yet, if another player attacks the newly conquered territory, the other player would get your reinforcements, only if both actions happen simultaneously. eg player 1 attacks china, conquers it and wants to allocate 5 troops there. player 2 attacks china simultaneously (while player 1 allocates troops), conquers it. now player 2 gets china plus player 1's troops

these are the two dominant glitches i observed thus far.

on a totally different note, read Ready Player One, i think it will appeal to the geeky side of most of the people on this site. (let's be honest, watching a bunch numbers on a dull interface and rigourously checking the system log and getting a thrill of it is geeky!)

Rastlin wrote:
I don't play same time, too frenetic for me. I'd say just avoid it, there are RTS games out there if you want to have that style of gameplay, where you can play against other people who will expect this type of play and compete with you!

Addressing another note, Ready Player One was fantastic, and so is Wheel of Time if you can handle that volume :D
lifeinpixels wrote:
Suldam, very nicely written post. I will share this with players who tell me they don't like same time - it actually isn't all about luck, like they think!
suldam wrote:
thanks LIP!

just to add on to my reply earlier, i would like to elaborate on the dynamics of sametime games. it is because i notice that the general perception or taste for this setting is dislike, some even expressed hate. i don't mean to dispel those fervent anti-sametime players, but rather to clear the air of ambiguity and distrust around this mode.

as i was saying in my former post, sametime games mimic reality in that if a player makes a mistake, anyone and everyone can exploit it. i believe the bulk of the players who dislike it is because they feel cheated (it goes without saying, the biggest reason is people don't understand it, so they blame it on glitches and luck). the thought that another player can break a region (bonus) in the last few seconds gets people very annoyed. they feel that their turn has been a "waste" because their efforts, over the course of their turn in that particular round, were futile. but the fact is, even in consecutive mode, other players could and would perform exactly the same thing during their respective turns. only the process is slower but the outcome similar.

and, another matter that gets on people's nerves is the idea that you can gain a region (bonus) by acting last, most of the time in the remaining few seconds. once again, people feel cheated and, obviously, annoyed. but, again, it is similar to the real world. you might have prepared for months to secure a contract/job but the sad fact is there are others who will barge in at the very last minute, put forth an irresistible pitch and win that contract/job. deal with it.

the crux of the matter is sametime games aren't as "evil" as some players make it out to be. yes, the game play is much more crude and intense and you are punish much more severely for mistakes (relative to consecutive mode), but the setting rewards you in equal measure when you play a perfect game, ie good strategy with appropriate adaptions where necessary. as with all games, yes, it takes practice and requires time to understand the game play. but, if you are a willing learner you will get the hang of it pretty quickly. for me, sametime games are a blend of Risk (the original game) and reality. it is only with a virtual interface are you able to accomplish that (imagine playing sametime in the physical world, hands and legs would be flying in the last few seconds!)

i have been in too many games where flawed strategies cost me my life, metaphorically. for illustration purposes, a [newbie] player 3 decides to demolish player 1's australia killing 35 troops and losing 32 for +2 bonus. then, player 4 notices player 1's troops significantly depleted and proceeds to wipe out the remainder, gets his cards and consequently wins. i, as player 5, become collateral damage. this, to me, is unfair.

i digress a little to address a side point that i notice a number of people voiced - i have seen people expressing not-so-positive words where certain regular sametime players have racked up points in a short period of time by exploiting people's mistakes. to keep it simple, just because a player has found a niche, specialised in it and utilised it to its fullest potential doesn't make the player any less deserving of his rank compare to others who took much longer to achieve it. we all play to win and obviously with winning comes lots of fun (tell me who enjoys losing?).

rastlin - read that. book 14 was the best, full of battle strategies and pretty awesome action. :)
Matty wrote:
There are a couple of things that do make same time games unfair.

First of all there are glitches and bugs possible - the persons that know how they work are in an advantage that has nothing to do with risk strategy.
The second is that active players have a huge advantage over players that can only check their games twice a day.

But apart from these, they can be huge fun!
"Strength doesn't lie in numbers, strength doesn't lie in wealth. Strenght lies in nights of peaceful slumbers." ~Maria
emjaydee wrote:
I quite enjoy same time games (although Spartakus owns me on that damn Europe map).

The main issue people need to realise is that the extra time option actually comes into play as a strategic weapon. A lot of players end their turns after 1 minute, and the skilled player will wait for everyone to end their turn before activating the etra time option to claim a region / kill an opponent.

Never end your turn on a same time game if you can avoid it. Just let the time run out, and if someone uses extra time, you benefit also.
The_Bishop wrote:
It seems more like a video game to me. That is not strategy, if you want you can use the word "tactics".
But still I have some problem to consider the fast-clicking as a tactic.

This section is about tips, my suggestion is:
* If you want the strategy then play consecutive order games.

Note the first line on the homepage:
This is a turn based strategy game based on the classic board game.

Eureka! Now I know why there are so high rank players with so lacking skills.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
scaldwell17 wrote:
I didn't know there were so many opinions about these games out there! I originally asked because I got frustrated say 4 player caps games, where the experienced player will kill the one new player who leaves their capital undefended for a second, and then they own the board. True, not a glitch, or luck, but it's a little exploitative, taking advantage of the novice players to then dominate over all the others on the map.
The_Bishop wrote:
Well, anyway rereading Suldam's suggestions I'm getting in the mood to make a try. Every game setting of the site is worth for me. Eventually I will change my mind and I will give my feedback. Thanks Suldam for your detailed explanation.

By the way I'm pretty sure I will suck at it because fast games are not for me. I'm an old Bishop!
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
lifeinpixels wrote:
The reason some players have ranked up very quickly with these games is because most players have this same mentality - the notion that these games are about luck, and there's not much you can do to change that.

If you play many of these games, you'll quickly find that there is just as much, if not more strategy in same-time games. But at this time on the site, it's not too hard to beat players because most don't know what they're doing. I think that will change soon enough though, and same-time games will probably be viewed very similarly to regular gameplay once players realize how to play them.
SpamFree wrote:
I have generally avoided "Same Time" games when I can. However, I do play them, either when wanting a quick game when others take too long to fill, or when I see a game that looks good (not noticing the "Same Time" setting) which I join, only to be unpleasantly surprised to find it is "Same Time". It is to the point now that I automatically look for "Same Time" setting when I see Spartakus in a game. (Most games he destroys me, but I have won a couple.)

The glitches described in suldam's excellent post above do not seem like what I have observed. I haven't studied it in much detail, but it seemed to me that on a few occasions I was attacking a capital with superior forces, only to have my troops become those of the defender, each time, costing me the game. This greatly soured me on "Same Time" play for some time, but I am less averse to it lately.

I do agree that it is possible to "farm" noobs in "Same Time" play, but this is equally as possible in "Consecutive" play. This is part of the game. The more experienced players seem like spiders waiting in their web for an unsuspecting fly. If the fly is dumb enough to enter the web, that's their problem.

There is definitely a slightly different style of play at work, especially as concerns timing and adding time in "Same Time" games.

I believe that, if the glitches are eliminated, "Same Time" can be as much, if not more, fun than "Consecutive" game play.

While I am still very wary of glitches, I intend to play more "Same Time" games in the near future. (However, I'm sure "Consecutive" games will make up the lion's share of my play time.)

"Same Time" play, like any of the options available, should be tried a few times, at least, and if you find it not to your liking, go back to the games you enjoy. Players' tastes and styles of play are varied. Play the games you enjoy but try to keep an open mind.

Most of all, have fun! It is a game after all.
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The_Bishop wrote:
Well... I still don't love but... I don't hate it anymore! :D

If I play against beginners sometimes I have very easy wins exploiting their mistakes, sometimes they target me and I lose poorly. I like better to play it 1v1.
The round skipping because you attack when the time resets is a bit annoying.
«God doesn't play dice with the World» ~ Albert Einstein
tmbqz2 wrote:
I am rather new to the world of Dominating 12, however, I have played risk for many years. I love the parallelism of "simultaneous" games, especially with unlimited fortify. It more closely mimics reality and actual battles.

As to the strategy of the games, I find it to be much like checkers. There are two (common) kinds of checkers games, those with force or optional take. Proponents of either side say that their is no strategy in the other,however,both kinds of games require a a keen mind and good strategy to win, they are simply different strategies.

In the same way, it takes experience for a player to master both consecutive and simultaneous risk, and one person who may top the rankings because of one game, may not be the best at the other. Few, if any, players will possess inherent ability in both games. Only when someone can overcome their bias in one type and realize that they may be starting again from scratch, will they learn to master, and eventually love, both games.