Ancestral Waters

[b]Ancestral Waters[/b] is a DNA-inspired map born from a personal mission: to give New Zealand the accurate representation it often lacks on world maps, as I do with all my maps on D12 (Any chance I get to do New Zealand - Aotearoa :) ). This project traces my own heritage, connecting New Zealand and the Philippines with the islands of Hawaii—where I grew up as a Navy brat—and the Celtic roots of Scotland, Ireland, and Cornwall (Kernow). I'm on a new computer and forgot that I had to download all the plug-ins for my paint program that help me make maps. But I tried this - Originally it was going to be the disc style map I created and looked playable, but a second time round trying with AI, it came up with the flat version and actually output a decent looking map. The creation process was a collaborative "Workflow" between myself and ChatGPT. While the AI provided brilliant strategic insights and color palettes, its current graphical limitations meant I had to step in as Director to hand-carve the territory lines and connections. After pivoting from an ambitious 81-territory layout to a more balanced 33-territory design, I integrated a unique tri-color bonus system for the Philippines and isolated Ireland as its own region. It’s a 50/50 split of AI innovation and manual cartography, finished in one sleepless, half-day sprint. [spoiler=Ancestral Waters][img]https://i.imgur.com/Y1RT6nV.jpeg[/img][/spoiler] [url=https://i.imgur.com/Y1RT6nV.jpeg]100% view[/url] Goal will be to get as close to doing a 100% AI generated map someday. Here is the workflow that works better for CHAT GPT. Other AI programs require different prompting to get the best result. GPT was good for this round. My creative outlet lately is making AI generated music, lol so I've been busy making 4000 songs learning the prompting along the way. I figured, that the best way was to do the map in stages rather than give AI too many at once. Kind of the same as we do when we make a map manually [i]Copy Paste each stage in Chat GPT or Gemini or something alike, and see how you go. Tweak it to your own idea[/i] [spoiler= 7 stage workflow][b]STAGE 1[/b] Create a high-resolution top-down orthographic map for a strategic board game. VIEW & STYLE - Flat, orthographic view - No perspective, no globe curvature, no fisheye - Clean cartographic illustration style - Balanced lighting, no dramatic shadows WORLD GEOMETRY - Seven island-based regions arranged with balanced spacing - Land covers roughly 65–70% of the usable map area - Ocean space is clean and uncluttered REGIONS (SHAPES ONLY, NO COLORS YET) 1) British Isles - Great Britain as one landmass (Scotland included) - Ireland as one landmass - Simplified, thickened coastlines 2) Philippines - Luzon: one large northern landmass - Visayas: 2–3 medium islands, clearly separated - Mindanao: one large southern landmass - Geography recognizable but simplified 3) Hawaiʻi - Exactly four islands - Rounded, chunky shapes - Even spacing between islands 4) New Zealand - North Island and South Island only - Thickened coastlines, no thin fjords COASTLINE RULES - Remove micro-islands - Remove thin peninsulas - Favor smooth, territory-friendly shapes STRICT EXCLUSIONS - No labels - No borders - No lines - No UI - No ports - No text [b]STAGE 2[/b] Using the previous map as a base, apply flat region color blocking. COLOR RULES - One distinct color per region - Flat fills only (no gradients yet) - Strong contrast between neighboring regions - Colors must feel cartographic, not neon REGION COLOR ASSIGNMENT - Great Britain: deep muted purple or slate - Ireland: lighter complementary tone - Luzon: gold or warm yellow - Visayas: contrasting secondary color - Mindanao: darker earth tone - Hawaiʻi: warm volcanic tone - New Zealand: natural green STYLE - No terrain textures yet - No borders yet - Clean, readable color separation STRICT EXCLUSIONS - No labels - No connection lines - No UI elements [b]STAGE 3[/b] Using the colored map as a base, subdivide each region into large, balanced territories. TERRITORY DESIGN - Total territories: 32 - Territories are similar in size - Each territory can clearly hold a circle and a place name - No narrow corridors or fragile connections - Borders are smooth and readable CARVING INTENT - British Isles: 10 territories total - Philippines: 13 territories total (Luzon, Visayas, Mindanao clearly separated) - Hawaiʻi: 4 territories (one per island) - New Zealand: 5 territories BORDER STYLE - Clean, consistent stroke - Slightly darker than land fill - Rounded joins STRICT EXCLUSIONS - No labels - No ports - No connection lines - No UI [b]STAGE 4[/b] Add minimal internal connection lines to the existing map. DRAW ONLY THESE CONNECTIONS - Great Britain ↔ Ireland - Luzon ↔ Visayas - Visayas ↔ Mindanao - North Island ↔ South Island - Hawaiʻi island chain only LINE STYLE - Thin - Subtle curved lines - Muted neutral color - Thinner than territory borders - No arrows STRICT EXCLUSIONS - No long ocean-spanning lines - No ports yet - No labels [b]STAGE 5[/b] Add small anchor-style port icons to indicate long-range connections. PORT RULES - Ports sit on coastlines - Ports do not overlap territory interiors - 1–2 ports maximum per continent - Ports imply connections without drawn lines PORT CONNECTION INTENT - British Isles ↔ Philippines - British Isles ↔ New Zealand - Philippines ↔ Hawaiʻi - Philippines ↔ New Zealand - Hawaiʻi ↔ New Zealand STYLE - Small, clean anchor icons - Neutral color - Consistent size STRICT EXCLUSIONS - No text - No arrows - No lines for these connections [b]STAGE 6[/b] Add subtle terrain texture to the landmasses. TERRAIN DETAIL - Gentle elevation shading - Soft mountain ridges - Light forest texture - No hard terrain borders RULES - Terrain must not imply territory borders - Terrain must not overpower colors - Keep everything readable at small scale OCEAN - Calm ocean texture - Soft depth gradient - No routes or markings [b]STAGE 7[/b] Add final cartographic UI elements. TITLE - Text: “ANCESTRAL WATERS” - Clear, readable font - Positioned at top of map TERRITORY LABELS - Place names inside territories - Readable font - No overlap with borders or circles MINI-MAP PANEL - Shows region names and bonus values - Flat silhouettes - Simple layout - Positioned in a corner FRAME - Thin neutral border - Slight inner shadow OPTIONAL - Small compass (subtle) STRICT EXCLUSIONS - No decorative clutter - No fantasy elements [/spoiler] To do. select capitals. GPT would have been awesome at this part if the map went with it's original layout. it was all prompted ahead, before the image process didn't quite cooperate with us. GPT even suggested its flaws and to try and take over with paint program.

Visually top! I like the colors and the texture. What looks slightly wierd is that some islands are more 3D looking than others, looks a bit as if they "rise" into different directions. But i dunno how to solve it. REgarding gameplay, i ll take a closer look later btw, what AI program is it? chat gpt?

yup chat gpt. usually gemini is my fave for general images, but i find i can't find the right prompts to get maps to work in my favour. gpt, been edging it out this round. also, i see what u mean about the 3d look. it's kind of not consistent from west to east, i hadn't noticed. i naturally like the bevelled look, but was always distracted from it with the critics. i could have probably tried to ask for this during my prompt workflow, but the main issue i have found with generating images in general, is it's hard (especially with GEMINI) for it to take a step backwards if you make a mistake. majority of the time, once you hit this wall, u'r best bet is to start over, and then it's unpredictable and you will end up with a different map layout, different strategy etc. edit. outta curiosity i asked google whether NZ and Hawaii had higher landscapes than Philippines and British Isles. They do. so that will be my explanation going forward haha

Very interesting Hood. The process that you have come up with is very good, and it has resulted in a map that is playable. Personally I don't see why we should outsource map making to AI when our own brains are able to make much better maps for the time being. A few specific critiques: - The gameplay on the above map is very convoluted with all the multi-coloured ports. - There is no minimap despite there being ample space for one. - There is lots of unused space. - The bevelled, raised texture is inconsistent as Dima has pointed out. - There is pixelation on a few of the territory dividers - I'm assuming those were quickly drawn on post-generation just to give a feel for what gameplay would be like. As an englishman, I would personally divide England up differently, but that's a minor issue. - As I have said elsewhere, this kind of pseudo-geographical map doesn't appeal to me, it just doesn't really make sense when we have plenty of geographic material to use without mish-mashing things together. Sorry if it sounds harsh - the map is not bad. Overall, I understand that it's cool to get AI to generate a playable map with minimal creation time via your cleverly constructed prompt process, but I don't think the map is particularly great. My view is that you could make one that is 100 times better on your own :) It just takes longer. On that note, did you use any AI for Dragonport, Nga Toa, Nine Kingdoms, or HoodTown?

thanks for the feedback. i have lost interest in map making, but this has sparked my interest, well really my interest in AI innovation. I've never used any AI prompt stuff, but i'd consider paint programs, a version of it really, and now we are at this stage. this map idea has always interested me before so, as just something to look at or even try and make playable out of interest and i know everyones taste is different, i don't like some of my own maps lol. lates update is eliminating some ports after chatting with GPT about the layout. the empty space was recognized and i had thought about doing dimas trick with cultural images here and there. i've had a test play myself already with the original layout and i quite liked it for a smaller map. now to see how GPT understands capitals selection. also, this way of making maps by prompt master allows for non artists who have ideas, and are still imaginative, have the option of creating a map. i think that's cool. give it a go! u can still prompt for textures, outline references ect, and even get accurate spelling, cultural information, and stuff from doing it this way which is another fascination of mine through map making. learning geography.

you can also simply re-draw the whole map based on that AI image. more or less exact copy. this way you add make changes. but ofc it takes some times.

my interest is further learning at the moment. i've done all those other things with my 40+ maps. there's nothing wrong with trying something different. embrace AI !!!! muhahaha control it, or let it control u!

That's cool... Cornwall is much smaller than that I think. Chat GPT failed on the first two points: [i]VIEW & STYLE - Flat, orthographic view - No perspective, no globe curvature, no fisheye[/i] The British Isles are almost flat, while the other islands emerge significantly from the water and are seen in perspective, especially the Hawaii. It's a nice graphic style for the coast lines, but it is not consistent on the whole image. Yep, the ports form a tricky melee! I think that's your purpose, not Chat GPT. I know you have a great passion for fictional maps, while I tend to prefer geographical and historical ones. Overall it looks nice, I'm not opposed to give it a try.

i can also, use CHAT GPT AI to see what it suggest for capitals in any of our maps. im thinking ill try the westeros one, if i recall, i believe the current caps are a mess! ill post findings on westeros thread if i can find it.

and nope, the results are. chat gpt isnt quite a mathematical genius with capitals mode. too much explaining on my behalf of how capitals games works. no one got time for that!

@@Hoodlum: I love the way you're using ChatGPT to create new maps! I don't think it's easy; you probably had to try a lot before you got the result you wanted. The only thing I'd say is that I think it should be indicated on the map that it was created with the help of ChatGPT. That's nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, I think it's just a cool thing; a new visitor coming to D12 will say: "Wow, these guys are so advanced, they use AI to make new maps!" [i]Just my humble opinion[/i]

As for the New Zealand missing from many world maps, I think it's mostly an issue due to the cartographic projection, one has to chose between keeping New Zealand on the map even if its shape is strongly distorted or just cut it off and save room. In fact most of the projections generate an elliptical-shaped world map, then usually it is cut to fit into a rectangle, and which part is cut off? Of course the Pacific Ocean, because there is no much landmass there. It is not discrimination, it's just that New Zealand is in the 'wrong place', I mean it's a hard place to be rappresented on a map together with the rest of the world land. It is not just New Zealand it's the entire Polynesia that is missing from the world maps! At least people know that New Zealand is [i]somewhere near Australia[/i], but if you ask them where is Kiribati or Easter Island they have no idea, they have no reference at all for them. People often don't realise the fact that when they look at a world map, actually a large part of the world is missing! The fairest cartographic projection is just a [url=https://www.jasondavies.com/maps/rotate/]rotating globe[/url], there every country is rappresented equally. :) I feel you should probably try to make a map of the Pacific Ocean, which is a sort of 'dark side of Earth' for many people; for most of us because I include myself. Just an idea..

good point yes. i've always wanted to do a pacific/polynesian map. and it's more familiar on our side of the world. just haven't figured out a way to do it unless i grid up the pacific in a way, that axis and allies does it. i've had plenty of past attempts. i don't feel i necessarily specialise in fantasy maps, but i have done a few lately. so far my map style numbers are REAL = 16 REAL (THEME) = 4 REMAKE REAL = 4 FANTASY = 6

Latest Experiment - some manual changes, basically gpt is a reference now and textures.. just redrew lines got rid of the cool bevelling rather than trying to match it. 100 times better? nope lol. gameplay changes to suit caps selection all around from 2-9. GPT wasn't any good in the end. i would have to teach it about landlocking yourself, etc, for it to understand what im requesting. [spoiler=latest experiment][img]https://i.imgur.com/HcOmQev.jpeg[/img][/spoiler] had a couple of games. feedback. cuk reckons luzon bonus is too high at 4. i think it's right though. 6 territories having to defend 5 justifies it. new port system i like, i restructured it around caps selection from 2-9 players. that's sometimes the best way to get the best gameplay out of a map anyway. opponent mention it also. Game 1592113 and that was for a 2p deathmatch game. might be a lot of empty space and it's all focused on the middle of the map. but i think this suits an ocean map actually, u don't want all that non playing space all through the middle. and if i try to polynesia map it will be like so. i could probably put a minimap in place of the current key thats there, but i quite like how i've colour coded it. needs tidying up tho. i could decorate the empty parts a bit of the frame but im not fussed myself with that much noise..

Nice! Yep, all-flat is better I think. I appreciate the placement of the ports, it's much more rational and intuitive! Ehm.. The bonuses, yes maybe a bit too high. Mindanao should be lower than Visayas I think, you inverted them. I'm not much concerned about +4 for Luzon, but about +7 for the British Isles, it's a lot! Same for the Philipines at +11. I suggest to reduce of one point any of the parts of the compound regions... I mean: GB +3, Ireland +1, [B.I. +1], Luzon +3, Visayas +2, Mindanao +1, [PH. +2]; and the others unchanged or just reduce NZ by one: Hawaii +2, New Zealand +2/+3. This will make the balance in my opinion, otherwise the British Isles would be too rich.! lol P.S. your bonus key is very clear, I don't feel to change it for a minimap.