Alexander The Great

This was a map I was supposed to work on 6 years ago but never saw it past a general outline. Taking a stab at it again as I've seen it mentioned several times throughout the forum and well.. unfinished business. Everything on it's own layer and easily editable, and I've been out of the game a while, so please, critique away. Did my best with territory names, had to alternate between cities and regions of the era from the maps I could find. Some artistic license was taken, but effort was made to be as time-accurate as possible. Libya territory for instance felt weird not to include, but struggled to find a good name aside from what it is. [img]https://i.imgur.com/aufZJL2.png[/img]

My First impresion IS that i Like IT a Lot, from the map Size, regional Size, amount of regions and Design i Like everything. I would Play on this map I would Change the borders between susia and pasagada, and between susia and drapsaka. The borders have a shape of a Cross and IT IS unclear whether there IS a connection between the mentioned territories or Not. I would Just move one part of Border few Millimeter to the right and another few Millimeter to the left. Also i would make nicaea fully fill in the River basin so that the River on its estern Side becomes the Border of that territory. I think it will Just Look better from visual Perspektive.

I also Like the topic. I guess i was even among the people to propose this map haha

[quote=Dima]My First impresion IS that i Like IT a Lot, from the map Size, regional Size, amount of regions and Design i Like everything. I would Play on this map I would Change the borders between susia and pasagada, and between susia and drapsaka. The borders have a shape of a Cross and IT IS unclear whether there IS a connection between the mentioned territories or Not. I would Just move one part of Border few Millimeter to the right and another few Millimeter to the left. Also i would make nicaea fully fill in the River basin so that the River on its estern Side becomes the Border of that territory. I think it will Just Look better from visual Perspektive.[/quote] Thank you for the very kind words! I assume that this is what you meant by Nicaea? Also slid the border some of Susia. The intent was for Susia to be able to attack Ariaspe, and not Pasagarda, but short of adding a small mountain range, I agree, shifting the border and allowing the attack to both territories makes sense, and doesn't affect region bonuses. [spoiler] [img]https://i.imgur.com/IdNuIV8.png[/img] [/spoiler] [quote=Dima]I also Like the topic. I guess i was even among the people to propose this map haha[/quote] For sure, it's been floated around A LOT.

ah cool nice. very good start! i had recently looked at this topic. the thing that stands out are all the rivers. so many, it seems like a river theme rather. the good thing is that u got a lot of choice here to pick and choose which ones could be drawn instead as territory lines while others can be used for dividers. i suppose i would naturally research which rivers are the biggest (such as the Nile) and keep those ones, while taking advantage of the other ones for gameplay opportunities.

the way rivers overlay the trees looks a bit wierd, maybe you put the layaer - i assume you have rivers on a separate layaer - beneath the layer with trees, cuz if you look closer, then it looks like the rivers are laying on top of the forest.

[quote=Hoodlum]ah cool nice. very good start! i had recently looked at this topic. the thing that stands out are all the rivers. so many, it seems like a river theme rather. the good thing is that u got a lot of choice here to pick and choose which ones could be drawn instead as territory lines while others can be used for dividers. i suppose i would naturally research which rivers are the biggest (such as the Nile) and keep those ones, while taking advantage of the other ones for gameplay opportunities. [/quote] The amount of rivers and the difficulty they create was quite intentional, Alexander faced these challenges and mountain ranges (which I didn't include). IMHO taking any away would take away the primary purpose of the map.. illustrating just how difficult it is to conquer this much land with this many challenges.

[quote=Dima]the way rivers overlay the trees looks a bit wierd, maybe you put the layaer - i assume you have rivers on a separate layaer - beneath the layer with trees, cuz if you look closer, then it looks like the rivers are laying on top of the forest.[/quote] LOL you caught me, the river layer is indeed on top of the trees. I'll look into this one and see what I can do to improve the look.

[quote=SethHrab][quote=Hoodlum]ah cool nice. very good start! i had recently looked at this topic. the thing that stands out are all the rivers. so many, it seems like a river theme rather. the good thing is that u got a lot of choice here to pick and choose which ones could be drawn instead as territory lines while others can be used for dividers. i suppose i would naturally research which rivers are the biggest (such as the Nile) and keep those ones, while taking advantage of the other ones for gameplay opportunities. [/quote] The amount of rivers and the difficulty they create was quite intentional, Alexander faced these challenges and mountain ranges (which I didn't include). IMHO taking any away would take away the primary purpose of the map.. illustrating just how difficult it is to conquer this much land with this many challenges.[/quote] So, most of these are pretty large, key rivers. [list] [li]The Nile in Egypt (Alexandria, Memphis, Thebes, Syene). [/li] [li]The Euphrates and Tigris in Mesopotamia (Babylon, Nisbis, Damascus, Issus, Synope, etc)[/li] [li]The Indus in Gandhara (Zariaspa, Herat, Bactra, Aornus, etc)[/li] [li]The Ganges in "India" (Patella, Quetta, Taxila, Nicaea, etc)[/li] [/list] Could you eliminate the lesser rivers to some extent? Sure, but given that they have intended bridge crossings or act as barriers, I'm not sure that it provides any purpose. (i.e. eliminating the two small rivers at Granicus.. only opens Granicus to Lycia.. not real sure how that's helpful. Eliminating the rive between Parsis Harmoxia and Pura.. Opens all that territory up, but again.. other than making the area easier to conquer, what's the point?) Maybe I'm coming at this from the perspective of I feel like we have a lot of generally wide open maps.. and something with a fair amount of barriers would be refreshing, and require potentially more strategy.

[spoiler][img]https://i.imgur.com/GEBDJ6H.jpeg [/img] [/spoiler] some visual changes, maybe they would make some borders look better. the connections remain, just the form changes

No sorry Seth, but those rivers like that they cannot stay. If it wasn't for that big title saying "Alexander The Great" I would have said this is the invasion of Mars by giant worms! :D Just being hilarious, forgive me... There is even one of the rivers that is inconsistent because it connects from one sea to another sea. I suspect that you drew so many rivers in order to cover the actual rivers on the background map image, is it so? Then simply remove the background map and use a normal texture instead, then remove all the unnecessary rivers. It is not a gameplay matter, it's just a graphic matter, those rivers are confusing, it's hard to tell which territories border with which, it requires a lot of eye effort. There is also an abuse of unnecessary tilted text (when they could fit well horizontally), that also is a bit confusing. Rather than black test with white halo I think it is preferable to use white text with black halo/shadow, it's easier to make it readable and to give it a nice look; the other way is harder, almost all D12 existing maps use white text in fact. The white dots sea-trails are not the best of clarity neither, the way they are now: too big, too white and too spaced. Region borders are too black or too thick, or both probably. Completely covering one territory with its circle and its tag is not good neither, when you encounter small islands you better put the circle half over the ocean and the text in proximity so that we can see what colour they are and recognize to which region they belong. Gameplay wise, having a sneaky river warfare is not a problem, if you like so. My main concern is just that Western wing that can be locked with only 2 adjacent territories, it's extreme. Here is when the bonus formula doesn't apply anymore in my opinion, because the West is too juicy, someone building there at some point might take all and having only 2 territories to defend. So, in a case like this I would reduce those 4 bonuses in the West by 1 point, in order to have a balance. But it's controversial... I dunno. Let's say it's a strange shape for a Risk map. Maybe reduce 1 point just two of the four Western regions: the green one and the brown one, so that the only +4 would be the light-blue in the middle. Now that I've checked it better I see that the Eastern wing also is defendable by only 2 territories (if the rivers will stay as they are) but it's different, it is significantly larger than the West one, 21 territories v 31. It could result to be an interesting map shape to play, but I get lost on defining the bonuses on a map chocked in the middle like this one, not even in the middle actually, the bottleneck is more on one side.

[quote=Dima][spoiler][img]https://i.imgur.com/GEBDJ6H.jpeg [/img] [/spoiler] some visual changes, maybe they would make some borders look better. the connections remain, just the form changes[/quote] Made the changes you suggested, including the trees. I want to be careful not to get [i]too[/i] liberal of defining borders.. there is some artistic license taken of course, but we're extending beyond the borders of his actual conquest in multiple spaces too. Trying to keep it at least [u]mostly[/u] historically accurate as I can. [spoiler][img]https://i.imgur.com/zWzMsIA.png[/img][/spoiler]

[quote=The_Bishop]No sorry Seth, but those rivers like that they cannot stay. If it wasn't for that big title saying "Alexander The Great" I would have said this is the invasion of Mars by giant worms! :D Just being hilarious, forgive me... There is even one of the rivers that is inconsistent because it connects from one sea to another sea. I suspect that you drew so many rivers in order to cover the actual rivers on the background map image, is it so? Then simply remove the background map and use a normal texture instead, then remove all the unnecessary rivers. It is not a gameplay matter, it's just a graphic matter, those rivers are confusing, it's hard to tell which territories border with which, it requires a lot of eye effort. There is also an abuse of unnecessary tilted text (when they could fit well horizontally), that also is a bit confusing. Rather than black test with white halo I think it is preferable to use white text with black halo/shadow, it's easier to make it readable and to give it a nice look; the other way is harder, almost all D12 existing maps use white text in fact. The white dots sea-trails are not the best of clarity neither, the way they are now: too big, too white and too spaced. Region borders are too black or too thick, or both probably. Completely covering one territory with its circle and its tag is not good neither, when you encounter small islands you better put the circle half over the ocean and the text in proximity so that we can see what colour they are and recognize to which region they belong. Gameplay wise, having a sneaky river warfare is not a problem, if you like so. My main concern is just that Western wing that can be locked with only 2 adjacent territories, it's extreme. Here is when the bonus formula doesn't apply anymore in my opinion, because the West is too juicy, someone building there at some point might take all and having only 2 territories to defend. So, in a case like this I would reduce those 4 bonuses in the West by 1 point, in order to have a balance. But it's controversial... I dunno. Let's say it's a strange shape for a Risk map. Maybe reduce 1 point just two of the four Western regions: the green one and the brown one, so that the only +4 would be the light-blue in the middle. Now that I've checked it better I see that the Eastern wing also is defendable by only 2 territories (if the rivers will stay as they are) but it's different, it is significantly larger than the West one, 21 territories v 31. It could result to be an interesting map shape to play, but I get lost on defining the bonuses on a map chocked in the middle like this one, not even in the middle actually, the bottleneck is more on one side.[/quote] [list] [li]Updated the territory names to be flat (90 degrees), white and with a black drop shadow.[/li] [li]Moved some territory names/bubbles that I believe you mention to be troublesome due to obscuring the territory color, please confirm if there are any further.[/li] [li]Adjusted one of the sea connections (dashes), please confirm if this is more visually pleasing.[/li] [li]Adjusted the east & west region border of the brown (2 bonus) region near map center. It is soft round, 3px, black. Please confirm this is what you're seeking for region borders. Are you also seeking this for the general outline?[/li] [li]In terms of rivers.. we're going to have to start to get more specific here. Most are/were quite key to Alexander's conquest. One you mention (the Euphrates) does essentially stretch from the Black Sea to the Persian Gulf in real life. I did not cover texture with rivers, they were hand drawn after covering the outline of Alexander's conquest map. Texture is actually damn near the last thing I added. There is some room for adjustment here, but again, I'd note that I did not include the extreme mountain ranges in this terrain that were an impact upon his conquest either, and IMHO a rather key part of the strategy of this map[/li] [li]As for the bottleneck, I understand your point to some degree, though I'd argue that there's plenty of maps with similar issues. One thing I had considered is ridding the map of connections and using anchors (much like the Westeros map does), but keeping all anchors accessible to any other anchor.. explainable by the Euphrates river, and thereby eliminating the concern of the bottleneck. My concern is that does vastly change gameplay. Maybe you anchor Sinope, Thrace, Granicus, Harmoxia, and Patalla as one color and then Athens, Crete, Cyrene, Rhodes, Lycia, Cyprus, Gaza, and Alexandria as another to limit some?[/li] [/list] [spoiler][img]https://i.imgur.com/wsp0aS5.png[/img][/spoiler] For a reference point, [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/38eesv/map_of_alexander_the_greats_conquests_1024_x_709/#lightbox]THIS[/url] is one of (many) maps I used as inspiration, not the only, but it was one of the main ones. Here's [url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Asia_Minor_in_the_Greco-Roman_period_-_general_map_-_regions_and_main_settlements.jpg]ANOTHER[/url] that may help illustrate that the Euphrates does indeed stretch from sea to sea (starting up in Colchis and flowing down into the Persian Gulf). Appreciating all the feedback, keep it coming!

hmmm, i have no problem with these wierd bottlenecks. if you look at the big eastern part, then you can see that it can be particioned into smaller parts through bottlenecks aswell. the partition around cyan territory (iran) falls into the eye, cuz it has such a prominent position on the map, but there are more choke point throughout the map. i would leaveit gameplaywise/connection wise the way it is and just test it. some things are known once you played them. especially if its such an unusual map shape and bottlenecks. regarding rivers: if i would remove rivers, then i would remove the ones in the north that have no connection to the game play area, but its optional. i somehow like the coloring & design of the map, maybe except some minor stuff. also: the trees look like as if they are floating in the air, maybe you can add shadow beneath them with airbrush.

@@SethHrab .. You may be from the Netherlands, which is a country without mountains, but in the rest of the world rivers flow from mountains to the ocean. If a waterway connects two seas, then it is a canal, not a river. The Euphrates is a river, not a canal, check your source better please.