Fully symmetrical about every axis, will allow for a "fixed" drop start
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Virtuoso wrote:
Hi

I'm a player from Major Command. I'm pretty unpopular there (honor score under 30%, which I don't understand as I play according to the rules). As such, though I pitched this map idea to them but it has not received a_single_reply.

My map concept is as follows: Fully symmetrical about every axis, which will allow for the option of a "fixed" drop start, whereby every player has the exact same starting position as every other player. 144 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 12, 16, 18, 24, which allows for a large number of equal starting positions for multiple multiplayer games. Continents will be 4 territories each to allow the symmetricalness across all axes

Thus, this map is intended to be as geographically neutral everywhere on the board as possible,, so that the only variables are the (1) dice and (2) gameplay. If played in the "neutral" dice format (they call it fixed force at MC), where attacks and kills occur in a 1-to-1 ratio, it would essentially turn this game into checkers with a Risk gameplay. 

I am not aware of any map that exists which would allow this specific gameplay. Each territory is exactly equivalent in strength and weakness to every other territory.

The edge territories (inner and outer edges) make up a continent. Orange and purple on the map.

[image]
“Life is like a piano; the white keys represent happiness and the black show sadness. But as you go through life’s journey, remember that the black keys also create music.” - Author unknown
AlexCheckMate wrote:
Cool idea :)

Seems to be a bit of an increased version of the Saturn map which is present on D12: https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/9.large.jpg
(is it just me, or do others also think of a Rolls Royce gasturbine mounted in a nacelle, or the Deathstar? :roll:).
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PS - amazing stats thus far! Winning an unprecedented 8 out of 9 games!

-Alex
“Gravitation cannot be held responsible for people falling in love. How on earth can you explain in terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as first love? Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.”

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The_Bishop wrote:
Quite interesting, BUT...
Our games are limited to 9 players so probably 128 territories would be a better sized map for our needs. I mean 144 it's for me 9 players only (and still large), while 128 can be good for 9 or 8. (still it's a good number to create a geometric shape of the type 8x16 or 4x32)
Here at Dominating Twelve players tend to prefer real place maps instead of made-up places (it is not a must though).
Actually this is not even a map, this is a geometric board, which I'd more likely call "an arena" rather than "a map".

The main issue is that we do not allow special game settings for any specific map: all our options and gametypes are available on every map.
Since we'll probably never get "fixed drop" starts, then your idea probably cannot be done, unless maybe in a far future.

BUT BUT...
One of our specialities are capital games, and a geometric arena like this (or even in a smaller size eventually) might be helpful in order to have perfectly equal capitals. We got the Pizza map (Saturn) as showed by Alex, but it's affected by hyper-connectivity and even if someone likes it, it's quite small and mostly good for 3 players.

Setting apart the Saturn map, which is not great in my opinion, a geometric map as you propose would be something new for Dominating 12 and I am not sure if the other users and cartographers will like it.
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elysium5 wrote:
(is it just me, or do others also think of a Rolls Royce gasturbine mounted in a nacelle, or the Deathstar? :roll:).

I think tricked out hubcap.
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Cireon wrote:
Geometry based maps are very unpopular. Saturn was meant to be that symmetric fair map, but it's not a very popular map at all. There are a few other maps that are very symmetrical (even though they don't always look that way), and they're all among our least popular maps. That's why I don't think this map has much potential on that front.

On top of that, there are a lot of complex rules in this map. Being able to attack diagonally for example: our map guidelines don't allow crossing territory lines in the first place. Going around as if fighting on a torus. That makes the map much harder to interpret at first glance. The only map we have that also messes with our understanding of the geometry is Europe 1844, yet another very unpopular map.

All in all, I doubt there's much demand for it. I think you'll find that while the concept of a symmetrical start sounds very fair, it's also very boring and doesn't lead to interesting and unique games.
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Virtuoso wrote:
The idea, unlike Saturn, is for a fixed drop gameplay. If such a gameplay is not possible for the game engine here, then yes, this game perhaps wouldn't be introducing anything new. That said.

> a geometric map as you propose would be something new for Dominating 12 and I am not sure if the other users and cartographers will like it.

I don't think proposing something "old", however, is the solution.

>Geometry based maps are very unpopular.

This is not a geometry-based map. It is a fixed-drop based map, which by necessity, requires certain geometric characteristics.

>I think you'll find that while the concept of a symmetrical start sounds very fair, it's also very boring and doesn't lead to interesting and unique games.

Some people may disagree. Games like Checkers and Go and Chess have seemed to do well historically.
“Life is like a piano; the white keys represent happiness and the black show sadness. But as you go through life’s journey, remember that the black keys also create music.” - Author unknown
Virtuoso wrote:
The_Bishop
Quite interesting, BUT...
Our games are limited to 9 players so probably 128 territories

I chose 144 because MC has multiplayer from 2-12, and 24. For a limit a 9, a number highly divisible by 2-9 would be preferable.
“Life is like a piano; the white keys represent happiness and the black show sadness. But as you go through life’s journey, remember that the black keys also create music.” - Author unknown
Virtuoso wrote:
OK - seems dead in the water here, but at least there was some feedback. There was zero at MC, and this is over several months of me slowly adding to the concept thread.

https://www.majorcommand.com/forums/threads/9881-A-Large-Geographically-Neutral-Map-Proposal

I have my issues with MC. It's very cliquey and everyone is obsessed with their ranking. They need new blood and new ideas, and less ego for their site to have any hope.

FWIW, Conquer Club seems to have some more interest in it. 
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=583&t=234305

I personally think this map is playable and would be interesting. But I understand if others don't feel the same way. 
“Life is like a piano; the white keys represent happiness and the black show sadness. But as you go through life’s journey, remember that the black keys also create music.” - Author unknown
God_of_War wrote:
Virtuoso
I have my issues with MC. It's very cliquey and everyone is obsessed with their ranking. 

Do we need to head over there and swing some clubs? Create an account for each of us, gang up on their top dogs and make them cry?

On the map idea, any map is another map that can be played. Here are some thoughts or maybe just 1 depending on if more comes to mind...

1. instead of being grouped for region bonus, have them spread out where none of the regions bonus territories touch each other. For example, sticking with 4 territories to gain a region bonus, from your drawing, the locations would be

* a spot in the yellow area
* a spot across the other side
* a spot between both of those areas

imagine a clock and to get a region bonus you need to control the 3, 6 , 9, and 12 spot or 1,4,7,10 spots and extrapolate that thought into your map
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Virtuoso wrote:
God_of_War
imagine a clock and to get a region bonus you need to control the 3, 6 , 9, and 12 spot or 1,4,7,10 spots and extrapolate that thought into your map

Yes, that would be cool.
“Life is like a piano; the white keys represent happiness and the black show sadness. But as you go through life’s journey, remember that the black keys also create music.” - Author unknown
Virtuoso wrote:
God_of_War
imagine a clock and to get a region bonus you need to control the 3, 6 , 9, and 12 spot or 1,4,7,10 spots and extrapolate that thought into your map

It occurred to me that if the point is to have an egalitarian drop, then it is probable we couldn't have the continent bonuses in the way you describe. Some players would be closer to having complete continents based on their drop, compared to others.
“Life is like a piano; the white keys represent happiness and the black show sadness. But as you go through life’s journey, remember that the black keys also create music.” - Author unknown
God_of_War wrote:
Virtuoso
God_of_War
imagine a clock and to get a region bonus you need to control the 3, 6 , 9, and 12 spot or 1,4,7,10 spots and extrapolate that thought into your map

It occurred to me that if the point is to have an egalitarian drop, then it is probable we couldn't have the continent bonuses in the way you describe. Some players would be closer to having complete continents based on their drop, compared to others.

If you control where they are dropped, would it matter where the bonus' are? the player positioning could be split accordingly.

What about taking this map and having 6 players play, each spread in the middle of their own area, surrounded by neutrals. You have to fight neutrals 1st to "get out"

I'm just tossing ideas at the wall. who knows what will stick.
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Virtuoso wrote:
The idea was for it to be playable by as many different player numbers between 2 and 12 (I guess 2 and 9 here). The idea was that one map could allow a even drop for the most number of those player possibilities, without having to re-order or reassign territories/continents for each specific number of players. I think the way it is., allows that to happen, since any way you draw a line through the map, it is symmetrical.
“Life is like a piano; the white keys represent happiness and the black show sadness. But as you go through life’s journey, remember that the black keys also create music.” - Author unknown
Hoodlum wrote:
here is an open source program. it has a map editor, and you can play against bots or hotseat with yourself to test maps for gameplay. there is a multiplayer server where you can submit your maps and play it. no rating. there are quite a few dominating12 maps if not all of them being used in a scaled down version, im pretty sure there are MC and CC maps there too, so they just allow anyone to use maps. at least it lets your creation come to life. i use it for testing purposes
https://sourceforge.net/projects/domination/
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Virtuoso wrote:
I'll check it out. Thanks.
“Life is like a piano; the white keys represent happiness and the black show sadness. But as you go through life’s journey, remember that the black keys also create music.” - Author unknown